MediaWiki

结构式讨论/弃用

< Structured Discussions
This page is a translated version of the page Structured Discussions/Deprecation and the translation is 31% complete.
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于Phabricator查看
任务T332022

Structured Discussions (SD - Flow) is a deprecated extension. Users are advised to discontinue its use, and communities are encouraged to move their talk pages that use Structured Discussions to subpages and stop using them.

It is used on a few wikis. This extension is not maintained. DiscussionTools (DT) is the default discussion system on wikis now.

The Growth team (SD maintainers) and the Editing team (DT maintainers) have started thinking about how to deprecate Structured Discussions (and possibly LiquidThreads) and replace them with DiscussionTools.

Structured Discussions is a complex piece of software that generates a lot of maintenance issues. Estimating the work required to adapt Structured Discussions to the Temporary Accounts project revealed a very significant workload. In view of all these challenges, the decision was taken to inform the communities of the future deprecation of Structured Discussions.

The idea is to encourage communities to switch active Structured Discussions tools to the DiscussionTools talk page format. Then, the Structured Discussions pages would be removed from the wikis, at a yet to-be-defined date.

项目更新

  • - first internal document by Kosta Harlan (Staff software engineer, Growth team) and Benoît Evellin (Community Relations Specialist, attached to the Growth team) on sunsetting SD
  • - first meeting with Growth and Editing about SD deprecation
  • - Comparison table of the two tools.
  • - creation of the project page
  • - Data on usage of Structured Discussions
  • - Community discussions regarding archiving SD boards on wikis.
  • - Communication plan to assist communities archiving their Flow/LQT boards
  • - Communities are progressively informed of Flow/LQT's deprecation and are invited to move their pages using these tools as archived pages. These pages will be set to read-only mode soon after.
  • - Phase 0 wikis Flow/LQT pages are set to read-only.
  • Next - Phase 1 wikis Flow/LQT pages are set to read-only.
  • Next - Phase 2 wikis Flow/LQT pages are set to read-only.
  • Next - Convert Flow/LQT contents

结构式讨论的弃用

The Wikimedia Foundation is working on changes to how IP editing is handled: Temporary Accounts. Temporary accounts for unregistered editors will be a new type of user account. This requires changing how features we use to contribute to wikis works.

This work concerns all features, and it raises some challenges. The case of Structured Discussions (also known as “SD” or “Flow”) is one of them. This extension is used at a few wikis, that were progressively contacted in November and December 2023. Flow is a complex piece of software that was never quite finished, fits poorly into the MediaWiki architecture, and creates a significant number of technical errors.

The usage of Structured Discussions is low. In August 2023, on average DiscussionTools is used about 18,780 times per day, while Structured Discussions is used about 250 times per day, mainly at French Wikipedia.

We considered several options to adapt Structured Discussions, including a full adaptation, or a partial adaptation where Temp accounts can respond but not create new conversations. All of them would take a lot of time and effort for a short-term benefit. Also, the Wikimedia Foundation's long-term plan is to remove Structured Discussions from the wikis, mainly due to the maintenance cost. As a consequence, we prefer to avoid adapting Structured Discussions to Temporary accounts.

We took the opportunity of work around Temporary accounts to question the concerned communities regarding the future of Structured Discussions.

DiscussionTools is the replacement for Structured Discussions. DiscussionTools is the default discussion system at all wikis. It allows anyone to start, reply or subscribe to a conversation. It provides a visual experience for wikitext-based conversations, and it covers the vast majority of features Structured Discussions offers.

The goal with this conversation is to respond to the community's questions regarding the archival of Structured Discussions.

The idea is to proceed in two stages:

  1. discussion pages using SD are archived as subpages. They are replaced by a classic discussion page. In this way, the most active pages will already be ready when we proceed to step 2.
  2. SD are removed from the wiki. Existing pages (including archived ones) will be converted to a format yet to be defined.

We encourage communities to start the first step.

Questions asked to the communities

Starting at the end of November 2023, communities where Structured Discussions are still in use are progressively informed of the upcoming deprecation. We ask them the following questions:

  1. Are the reasons given for archiving structured discussions clear?
  2. Are the two steps outlined above for archiving and uninstalling structured discussions clear?
  3. If so, what is a reasonable timeframe for archiving pages for deinstallation? At present, deinstallation is not planned on our side (even if the second quarter of 2024 is mentioned), as we are waiting for the end of these conversations, which take place on multiple wikis.
  4. In your opinion, what format should pages currently using SDs be converted to when we proceed with the deinstallation of structured discussions?

Communities discussions report

棄用時間表

于Phabricator查看
任务T370722

棄用程序將如下執行：

  1. 將所有非子頁面的Flow頁面移動為子頁面[1]
    1. 這個移動首先是由使用者完成的。這樣，活躍Flow版面的使用者就有機會將活躍討論移至新的傳統討論頁。
    2. 在指定日期，將由腳本移動剩餘的頁面。
  2. 將這些頁面設為唯讀模式。
  3. 將內容轉換為wikitext。

由編輯團隊於2024年10月起執行前兩項步驟。wiki已分組為多個階段。

階段 wiki 移動所有Flow頁面為子頁面 將Flow頁面設為唯讀模式 將內容轉換為wikitext
階段0 commonswiki, cswiki, enwiki, eowiki, frwiktionary, hewiki, kkwiki, metawiki, pawiki, ruwiki, specieswiki, svwiki, test2wiki, tewiki, nowiki, outreachwiki
執行腳本 		not defined
階段1 bswiki, elwiki, euwiki, fawiki, fiwiki, frwikiquote, frwikisource, frwikiversity, frwikivoyage, idwiki, lvwiki, plwiki, ptwiki, urwiki, viwikisource, zhwikisource not defined
階段2 arwiki, cawiki, frwiki , mediawikiwiki , orwiki, wawiki, wawiktionary, wikidatawiki, zhwiki to be added not defined
Phase 2b cawikiquote, fiwikimedia, gomwiki, kabwiki, ptwikibooks, sewikimedia to be added to be added not defined


结构式讨论与讨论工具的比较

主要特征

每个工具的状态以及与维基的兼容度。

LQT 結構式討論 讨论工具 快捷讨论
类型 MediaWiki扩展 基于讨论工具的小工具或用户工具
发布状态 不再維護 由维基媒体基金会维护 由志愿者维护
激活方式 即将移除[2] 由维基启用，由用户配置[3] User configurable (including opting-out). 由用户启用，由用户配置
可视化编辑  N No   Yes   Yes  N No
兼容Wikitext  N No  N No   Yes   Yes
支持模板   Yes   Yes   Partial – 在可视化模式下不允许使用表格、模板和解析器函数   Yes
在页面历史中显示   Yes  N No   Yes   Yes
支持移动版网站  N No   Yes   Yes  N No
支持移动版软件  N No  N No   Yes  N No
生成指定评论的固定链接   Yes   Yes   Yes – 前提是这个评论不被移动[4]   进行中

讨论功能

与讨论页以及其它评论的交互。

LQT 結構式討論 讨论工具 快捷讨论
发起新话题的专用方式   Yes   Yes   Yes   Yes
预加载新话题的文本   Yes   Yes   Yes   Yes
阅读话题时，指出新的评论  N No  N No   Yes
阅读话题时，指出被编辑过的评论   Yes   Yes  N No   Yes
每个话题都有自己的页面或固定链接   Yes   Yes – Each topic is a different page.   Yes – By linking to the title, or by using the first comment's permalink.[4]   进行中[4]
在页面之间移动主题   Yes  N No – 有规划，未实施   Yes – 通过编辑Wikitext，会把链接搞坏[4]   Yes
在另一页上嵌入讨论并回复  N No  N No – 有包括跨维基内嵌 的规划，但从未实施   Yes – 通过嵌入
编辑评论   Yes   Yes   Partial – 通过手动编辑评论所在章节的Wikitext 有关单个评论的编辑，参见T242562和T245225。   Yes
通过讨论页感谢评论   Partial – 通过历史   Yes   Partial – 通过历史
  进行中 – 从讨论工具的界面支持“感谢”的工作正在进行中。 		  Yes
按最新评论时间来排序主题   Yes   Yes  N No  N No
按发起时间来排序主题   Yes   Yes  N No  N No
总结一个主题   Yes   Yes   Partial – 通过编辑开场评论。
标记消息为已读或未读   Yes  N No  N No  N No
折叠一串评论   Yes  N No  N No   Yes

通知与互动

LQT 結構式討論 讨论工具 快捷讨论
强调未读评论  N No   Yes   Yes – 仅限在订阅主题后使用通知中的链接   Yes
订阅来得到有新评论的通知   Yes – 通过Watchlist   Yes – 通过 Echo   Yes – 通过 Echo 或本身
某页有新话题时通知
自动订阅自己发起的话题   Yes – 默认
强调被引用的评论  N No – 能链接到评论，但每个评论都是单独的页面   Yes   Yes   Yes
评论被编辑时通知   Partial – 仅限自己的评论   Yes  N No  N No

维护与审查

LQT 結構式討論 讨论工具 快捷讨论
直接访问用户讨论页、贡献页等   Partial – 仅限用户签名内的链接   Yes   Partial – 仅限用户签名内的链接
隐藏或删除一评论   Partial – 不能通过界面取消删除   Yes   Partial – 通过撤销或回退（需要在编辑历史记录中搜索编辑）或存档模板；不包括此功能，需要编辑 Wikitext   Yes
隐藏或删除一话题   Yes   Partial – 与讨论工具一样
存档讨论   无需   无需  N No – 参见T337293
  • 需要第三方机器人才能自动存档
  • 需要编辑 Wikitext 或第三方小工具来手动存档
  N No – 与讨论工具一样，但可通过移动话题手动存档
Report an inappropriate comment  N No  N No   进行中[5]  N No

Data on usage

In August 2023, on average:

  • DiscussionTools is used about 18,780 times per day.
  • Flow is used about 250 times per day, mainly at French Wikipedia.
  • LiquidThreads is used less than once per day.

Notes and references

  1. ↑ 我們假定任何子頁面都是存檔。
  2. ↑ https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T332022
  3. ↑ A few wikis have Flow as the default discussion system.
  4. ↑ T339247 – 为讨论工具，创造举报系统的接口
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