Strukturált Megbeszélések/Kivonás
Structured Discussions (SD - Flow) is used on a few wikis. This extension is not maintained. DiscussionTools (DT) is the default discussion system on wikis now.
The Growth team (SD maintainers) and the Editing team (DT maintainers) have started thinking about how to deprecate Structured Discussions (and possibly LiquidThreads) and replace them with DiscussionTools.
Structured Discussions are a complex piece of software that generates a lot of maintenance issues. Estimating the work required to adapt Structured Discussions to the IP Editing: Privacy Enhancement and Abuse Mitigation project revealed a very significant workload. In view of all these challenges, the decision was taken to inform the communities of the future deprecation of Structured Discussions.
The idea is to encourage communities to switch active Structured Discussions tools to the DiscussionTools talk page format. Then, the Structured Discussions pages would be removed from the wikis, at a yet to-be-defined date.
Projektfrissítések
- - first internal document by Kosta Harlan (Staff software engineer, Growth team) and Benoît Evellin (Community Relations Specialist, attached to the Growth team) on sunsetting SD
- - first meeting with Growth and Editing about SD deprecation
- - Comparison table of the two tools.
- - creation of the project page
- - Data on usage of Structured Discussions
- - Community discussions regarding archiving SD boards on wikis.
- Next - Communication plan to assist communities archiving their Flow/LQT boards
- Next - Setting Flow/LQT pages in read-only
- Next - Convert Flow/LQT contents
A Strukturált Megbeszélések kivonása
The Wikimedia Foundation working on changes to how IP editing is handled: IP Editing: Privacy Enhancement and Abuse Mitigation. Temporary accounts for unregistered editors will be a new type of user account. This requires changing how the features we use to contribute to the wikis' work.
This work concerns all features, and it raises some challenges. The case of Structured Discussions (also known as “SD” or “Flow”) is one of them. This extension is used at a few wikis, that are progressively contacted in November and December 2023. Flow is a complex piece of software that was never quite finished, fits poorly into the MediaWiki architecture, and creates a significant number of technical errors.
A Strukturált Megbeszélések használata alacsony. 2023 augusztusában a DiscussionToolst naponta átlagosan 18 780-szor használták, a Strukturált Megbeszéléseket csak 250-szer, elsősorban a francia Wikipédián.
We considered several options to adapt Structured Discussions: a full adaptation; a partial adaptation where Temp accounts can respond but not create new conversations. All of them would take a lot of time and effort for a short-term benefit. Also, the Wikimedia Foundation's long-term plan is to remove Structured Discussions from the wikis, mainly due to the maintenance cost. As a consequence, we prefer to avoid adapting Structured Discussions to Temporary accounts.
We take the opportunity of the work around Temporary accounts to question the concerned communities regarding the future of Structured Discussions.
DiscussionTools is the replacement for Structured Discussions. They are the default discussion system at all wikis. They allow anyone to start, reply or subscribe to a conversation. They provide a visual experience on wikitext-based conversations, and they cover the vast majority of features Structured Discussions offer.
The goal with this conversation is to respond to community's questions regarding the archival of Structured Discussions.
The idea is to proceed in two stages:
- discussion pages using SD are archived as subpages. They are replaced by a classic discussion page. In this way, the most active pages will already be ready when we proceed to step 2.
- SD are removed from the wiki. Existing pages (including archived ones) will be converted to a format yet to be defined.
We encourage communities to start the first step.
A közösségeknek feltett kérdések
Starting at the end of November 2023, communities where Structured Discussions are still in use are progressively informed of the upcoming deprecation. We ask them the following questions:
- Are the reasons given for archiving structured discussions clear?
- Are the two steps outlined above for archiving and uninstalling structured discussions clear?
- If so, what is a reasonable timeframe for archiving pages for deinstallation? At present, deinstallation is not planned on our side (even if the second quarter of 2024 is mentioned), as we are waiting for the end of these conversations, which take place on multiple wikis.
- In your opinion, what format should pages currently using SDs be converted to when we proceed with the deinstallation of structured discussions?
Communities discussions report
Structured Discussions and DiscussionTools Comparative review
Main characteristics
Status of each tool, and their integration to the wiki's key features.
| LiquidThreads | Structured Discussions | DiscussionTools | Convenient Discussions | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Type of tool | MediaWiki extension | Gadget/Userscript based on DiscussionTools | ||
| Release status | Unmaintained | Maintained (Wikimedia Foundation) | Maintained (Volunteers) | |
| Activation | Pending removal[1] | Wiki opt-in, user configurable | User opt-in and configurable | |
| Visual editing |  Nincs kész
|
 Kész
|
Kész
|
Nincs kész
|
| Backwards-compatibility with wikitext | Nincs kész
|
Nincs kész
|
Kész
|
Kész
|
| Templates support | Kész
|
Kész
|
 Részben kész – Tables, templates and parser tags aren't allowed in replies in visual mode
|
Kész
|
| Full history integration with the rest of the wiki | Kész
|
Nincs kész
|
Kész
|
Kész
|
| Mobile web support | Nincs kész
|
Kész
|
Kész
|
Nincs kész
|
| Mobile app support | Nincs kész
|
Nincs kész
|
Kész
|
Nincs kész
|
| Permalink to a given comment | Kész
|
Kész
|
Részben kész – if the comment is not moved elsewhere.[2]
| |
Discussion features
Interaction with talk pages and other comments.
| LiquidThreads | Structured Discussions | DiscussionTools | Convenient Discussions | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Dedicated workflow for starting a new topic | Kész
|
Kész
|
Kész
|
Kész
|
| Topic and contents preload | Kész
|
Kész
|
Kész
|
Kész
|
| Indication of new comments when you read a topic | Nincs kész
|
Nincs kész
|
Kész
|
|
| Indication of edited comments when you read a topic | Kész
|
Kész
|
Nincs kész
|
Kész
|
| Each topic is a different pages/each conversation has a permalink | Kész
|
Kész
|
 Folyamatban[2]
|
Folyamatban[2]
|
| Move topics between pages | Kész
|
Nincs kész – planned but not implemented
|
Részben kész – via wikitext editing, breaks links.[2]
|
Kész
|
| Include discussions on another page and reply to them there | Nincs kész
|
Nincs kész – planned, including cross-wiki transclusion, but not implemented
|
Kész – via transclusion
| |
| Editing comments | Kész
|
Kész
|
Részben kész – via wikitext editing the whole page or section. See T242562 and T245225 for the editing of individual comments.
|
Kész
|
| Thank a comment from within the talk page | Részben kész – via Page history
|
Kész
|
Részben kész – via Thanks in Page history. Folyamatban – Work on supporting "Thanking" from the DiscussionTools UI is being tracked.
|
Kész
|
| Sort topics by recent comment | Kész
|
Kész
|
Nincs kész
|
Nincs kész
|
| Sort topics by start date | Kész
|
Kész
|
Nincs kész
|
Nincs kész
|
| Summarize a discussion at the top of it | Kész
|
Kész
|
Részben kész – by editing opening comment.
| |
| Mark a message as read or unread | Kész
|
Nincs kész
|
Nincs kész
|
Nincs kész
|
| Show/hide (collapse) subthreads | Kész
|
Nincs kész
|
Nincs kész
|
Kész
|
Notifications and interactivity
| LiquidThreads | Structured Discussions | DiscussionTools | Convenient Discussions | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Highlight a set of unread comments | Nincs kész
|
Kész
|
Kész – only when subscribed to a topic and using links from notifications
|
Kész
|
| Subscribe to be notified about new comments to a topic | Kész – via Watchlist
|
Kész – via Echo
|
Kész – via Echo or itself
| |
| Be notified when a new topic is started on a talk page | ||||
| Auto-subscription to a topic you created | Kész – default
| |||
| Highlight a quoted comment | Nincs kész – can link to comments but only as standalone pages
|
Kész
|
Kész
|
Kész
|
| Notification of edited comments | Részben kész – only on your own comments
|
Kész
|
Nincs kész
|
Nincs kész
|
Maintenance and moderation
| LiquidThreads | Structured Discussions | DiscussionTools | Convenient Discussions | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Direct access to user talkpage, contribs and more | Részben kész – if linked in the signature
|
Kész
|
Részben kész – if linked in the signature
| |
| Hide (moderate) a comment | Részben kész – no undelete UI
|
Kész
|
Részben kész – via undo/rollback (requires searching for edit in edit history) or archival templates, not included and requires editing wikitext
|
Kész
|
| Hide or delete a topic | Kész
|
Részben kész – same as DiscussionTools
| ||
| Archiving discussions | Nem szükséges
|
Nem szükséges
|
Nincs kész – see T337293
|
Nincs kész – Same as DiscussionTools, though moving topics can be used for manual archival.
|
| Report an inappropriate comment | Nincs kész
|
Nincs kész
|
Folyamatban[3]
|
Nincs kész
|
Használati adatok
2023 augusztusában átlagosan:
- A DiscussionToolst naponta mintegy 18 780 alkalommal használják.
- A Flow-t mintegy 250-szer használják, elsősorban a francia Wikipédiában.
- A LiquidThreadst kevesebb mint egyszer használják naponta.
Megjegyzések és hivatkozások
- ↑ https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T332022
- ↑ 2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 Support for offering permanent links to talk page comments and topics is being worked on. Links to comments already exist but aren't permanent without Help:PermanentLink. See T302011. While DiscussionTools doesn't have a UI for acquiring links, Convenient Discussions does and can automatically generate PermanentLinks.
- ↑ T339247 – Create entry points for the Incident Report dialog with DiscussionTools