構造化された議論/廃止予定

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タスク T332022

Structured Discussions (SD - Flow) is used on a few wikis. This extension is not maintained. DiscussionTools (DT) is the default discussion system on wikis now.

The Growth team (SD maintainers) and the Editing team (DT maintainers) have started thinking about how to deprecate Structured Discussions (and possibly LiquidThreads) and replace them with DiscussionTools.

Structured Discussions are a complex piece of software that generates a lot of maintenance issues. Estimating the work required to adapt Structured Discussions to the IP Editing: Privacy Enhancement and Abuse Mitigation project revealed a very significant workload. In view of all these challenges, the decision was taken to inform the communities of the future deprecation of Structured Discussions.

The idea is to encourage communities to switch active Structured Discussions tools to the DiscussionTools talk page format. Then, the Structured Discussions pages would be removed from the wikis, at a yet to-be-defined date.

Project updates

• 2022年6月8日 - first internal document by Kosta Harlan (Staff software engineer, Growth team) and Benoît Evellin (Community Relations Specialist, attached to the Growth team) on sunsetting SD
• 2023年3月14日 - first meeting with Growth and Editing about SD deprecation
• 2023年3月14日 - Comparison table of the two tools.
• 2023年3月29日 - creation of the project page
• 2023年9月 - Data on usage of Structured Discussions
• 2023年12月 - Community discussions regarding archiving SD boards on wikis.
• Next - Communication plan to assist communities archiving their Flow/LQT boards
• Next - Setting Flow/LQT pages in read-only
• Next - Convert Flow/LQT contents

Structured Discussions' deprecation

The Wikimedia Foundation working on changes to how IP editing is handled: IP Editing: Privacy Enhancement and Abuse Mitigation. Temporary accounts for unregistered editors will be a new type of user account. This requires changing how the features we use to contribute to the wikis' work.

This work concerns all features, and it raises some challenges. The case of Structured Discussions (also known as “SD” or “Flow”) is one of them. This extension is used at a few wikis, that are progressively contacted in November and December 2023. Flow is a complex piece of software that was never quite finished, fits poorly into the MediaWiki architecture, and creates a significant number of technical errors.

The usage of Structured Discussions is low. In August 2023, on average DiscussionTools is used about 18,780 times per day, while Structured Discussions is used about 250 times per day, mainly at French Wikipedia.

We considered several options to adapt Structured Discussions: a full adaptation; a partial adaptation where Temp accounts can respond but not create new conversations. All of them would take a lot of time and effort for a short-term benefit. Also, the Wikimedia Foundation's long-term plan is to remove Structured Discussions from the wikis, mainly due to the maintenance cost. As a consequence, we prefer to avoid adapting Structured Discussions to Temporary accounts.

We take the opportunity of the work around Temporary accounts to question the concerned communities regarding the future of Structured Discussions.

DiscussionTools is the replacement for Structured Discussions. They are the default discussion system at all wikis. They allow anyone to start, reply or subscribe to a conversation. They provide a visual experience on wikitext-based conversations, and they cover the vast majority of features Structured Discussions offer.

The goal with this conversation is to respond to community's questions regarding the archival of Structured Discussions.

The idea is to proceed in two stages:

1. discussion pages using SD are archived as subpages. They are replaced by a classic discussion page. In this way, the most active pages will already be ready when we proceed to step 2.
2. SD are removed from the wiki. Existing pages (including archived ones) will be converted to a format yet to be defined.

We encourage communities to start the first step.

Questions asked to the communities

Starting at the end of November 2023, communities where Structured Discussions are still in use are progressively informed of the upcoming deprecation. We ask them the following questions:

1. Are the reasons given for archiving structured discussions clear?
2. Are the two steps outlined above for archiving and uninstalling structured discussions clear?
3. If so, what is a reasonable timeframe for archiving pages for deinstallation? At present, deinstallation is not planned on our side (even if the second quarter of 2024 is mentioned), as we are waiting for the end of these conversations, which take place on multiple wikis.
4. In your opinion, what format should pages currently using SDs be converted to when we proceed with the deinstallation of structured discussions?

Communities discussions report

Structured Discussions and DiscussionTools Comparative review

Main characteristics

Status of each tool, and their integration to the wiki's key features.

	LiquidThreads	構造化された議論	DiscussionTools	Convenient Discussions
Type of tool	MediaWiki extension			Gadget/Userscript based on DiscussionTools
Release status	Unmaintained		Maintained (Wikimedia Foundation)	Maintained (Volunteers)
Activation	Pending removal		Wiki opt-in, user configurable	User opt-in and configurable
Visual editing	N 未完了	完了	完了	N 未完了
Backwards-compatibility with wikitext	N 未完了	N 未完了	完了	完了
Templates support	完了	完了	部分的に完了 – Tables, templates and parser tags aren't allowed in replies in visual mode	完了
Full history integration with the rest of the wiki	完了	N 未完了	完了	完了
Mobile web support	N 未完了	完了	完了	N 未完了
Mobile app support	N 未完了	N 未完了	完了	N 未完了
Permalink to a given comment	完了	完了	部分的に完了 – if the comment is not moved elsewhere. 進行中

Discussion features

Interaction with talk pages and other comments.

	LiquidThreads	構造化された議論	DiscussionTools	Convenient Discussions
Dedicated workflow for starting a new topic	完了	完了	完了	完了
Topic and contents preload	完了	完了	完了	完了
Indication of new comments when you read a topic	N 未完了	N 未完了	完了
Indication of edited comments when you read a topic	完了	完了	N 未完了	完了
Each topic is a different pages/each conversation has a permalink	完了	完了	進行中	進行中
Move topics between pages	完了	N 未完了 – planned but not implemented	部分的に完了 – via wikitext editing, breaks links. See discussions on moving with the DiscussionTools UI.	完了
Include discussions on another page and reply to them there	N 未完了	N 未完了 – planned, including cross-wiki transclusion , but not implemented	完了 – via transclusion
Editing comments	完了	完了	部分的に完了 – via wikitext editing the whole page or section. See T242562 and T245225 for the editing of individual comments.	完了
Thank a comment from within the talk page	部分的に完了 – via Page history	完了	部分的に完了 – via Thanks in Page history. 進行中 – Work on supporting "Thanking" from the DiscussionTools UI is being tracked.	完了
Sort topics by recent comment	完了	完了	N 未完了	N 未完了
Sort topics by start date	完了	完了	N 未完了	N 未完了
Summarize a discussion at the top of it	完了	完了	部分的に完了 – by editing opening comment.
Mark a message as read or unread	完了	N 未完了	N 未完了	N 未完了
Show/hide (collapse) subthreads	完了	N 未完了	N 未完了	完了

Notifications and interactivity

	LiquidThreads	構造化された議論	DiscussionTools	Convenient Discussions
Highlight a set of unread comments	N 未完了	完了	完了 – only when subscribed to a topic and using links from notifications	完了
Subscribe to be notified about new comments to a topic	完了 – via Watchlist	完了 – Echo 経由		完了 – via Echo or itself
Be notified when a new topic is started on a talk page
Auto-subscription to a topic you created	完了 – default
Highlight a quoted comment	N 未完了 – can link to comments but only as standalone pages	完了	完了	完了
Notification of edited comments	部分的に完了 – only on your own comments	完了	N 未完了	N 未完了

Maintenance and moderation

	LiquidThreads	構造化された議論	DiscussionTools	Convenient Discussions
Direct access to user talkpage, contribs and more	部分的に完了 – if linked in the signature	完了	部分的に完了 – if linked in the signature
Hide (moderate) a comment	部分的に完了 – no undelete UI	完了	部分的に完了 – {{$2|取り消し/差し戻し}}経由	完了
Hide or delete a topic		完了		部分的に完了 – same as DiscussionTools
Archiving discussions	不要	不要	N 未完了 – see T337293 Requires 3rd party bots for automatic archival Requires wikitext editing or 3rd party gadgets for manual archival	N 未完了 – Same as DiscussionTools, though moving topics can be used for manual archival.
Report an inappropriate comment	N 未完了	N 未完了	進行中	N 未完了

Data on usage

In August 2023, on average:

• DiscussionTools is used about 18,780 times per day.
• Flow is used about 250 times per day, mainly at French Wikipedia.
• LiquidThreads is used less than once per day.

Notes and references