Talk:Growth

About this board

Discussion related to the old Growth team is archived at Talk:Growth/Growth 2014.

Consider Wikisource

8
Summary by Trizek (WMF)
Ignacio Rodríguez (talkcontribs)

Today I learned about the work of your team, and seeing only the mock-ups, I think it's the way to go.

That been said, I write to you to ask you to consider Wikisource. I think the tools you have developed are suited for us, and here's my reasons:

1) we are mainly small communities with dire need for growth 2) our work is very fun, you get to read a lot about that you like, and there is room for everyone. (There's always more and more texts, and no subject is "taken") 3) we have a huuuge backlog, lots of stuff that need maintenance 4) our workflow has a very steeped learning curve, which usually deter newcomers. Once you get the basics, it's as easy as reading a book.

Let me know what you think about this. If there's any chance, some of the community's members are really tech-savvy and surely will be happy to work with you.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello Ignacio, and thank you for your message !

As written on the get-the-features page, we keep the door open to any community wishing to deploy the feature at their wiki. For non-Wikipedia wikis, they get the features as they are, and the team will not have time to prioritize improvements specific to those wikis. However, it doesn't mean that it is impossible for you to get the features, nor get improvements being made. :)

I don't know if you already tried the features, for instance at Spanish Wikipedia. I think they could fit Wikisources as they are:

  • the Homepage is the key feature. There, we can eaisly deploy the following modules:
    • the mentorship module would be very helpful for any newcomer. You get an experienced user assigned to you when you create your account, so that you can get some advice when it is time to edit.
    • Suggested edits are a bit more tricky to change, but maybe some of the existing maintenance tasks could be used on Wikisource. Or you could "hack" some of these tasks, by over-writing all messages locally. The feature offers 2 placeholders for easy tasks, 2 for medium tasks and 1 for hard ones. We need to figure out how to triage them by topic.
    • Other modules available at the homepage would remain unchanged.
  • the Help panel can be customized with helpful links so that newcomers can have them on hand. We can also add either a link to the mentor talk page, or to the local help desk.

I'd say it is something we should try! I will share your idea with the rest of the team, to check about this possibility. The most important point then would be to find a Wikisource to volunteer. Any thoughts? ;)

Ignacio Rodríguez (talkcontribs)

I'm an admin at Spanish Wikisource. Tomorrow after my shift ends I will look into those pages and see what I can do.

If I need help with the setup, can I contact you by email?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

We will have to work together in order to check if the deployment is possible and how to customize it.

Keep me posted at: bevellin@wikimedia.org :)

Gryllida (talkcontribs)

Ignacio Rodríguez, I believe the procedure is to open a query at the wiki where it needs to be deployed, and seek community consensus in a vote and discussion. Once that's done then deployment and customization may proceed.

Trizek, MMiller, MFlorence, I would suggest that you put a message out in TechNews for all sister wikis (Wikibooks, Wikisource, et al) and invite them to deploy any of the Growth Team projects there, if you haven't done so already. (It is in my opinion better to do it early as software engineering may be influenced by custom needs of these wikis and their early implementation could perhaps help to improve the software design with little overheads.)

Thanks.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@Gryllida, thank you for your encouragement to see more wiki getting our features!

Our current focus is on Wikipedias. As a consequence, our features aren't designed to work properly at other wikis. French Wiktionary already enabled some of the features, but not all of them, because they aren't relevant: what's the point to add links between definitions, or to work on copyediting?

We have decided to provide a good Growth experience to sister projects instead of just taking the features "as they are", with more limited functionalities. As a consequence, we are not encouraging the deployment of Growth features at sister projects for now. Here is our plan: at the moment, I'm working on collecting information from sister projects, to know the kind of tasks they usually provide to newcomers. This way, we can improve Growth features to for the specific needs of Wikisource, Wiktionary, etc.

It seems that our first group of wikis would be Wikisource, since I received several requests from different groups.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello!

A first meeting happen with some users of Wikisouces from India, about adopting Growth features to Wikisource (notes here).

Now, I'm looking for more feedback to have a better overview of the needs of Wikisource.

@Ignacio Rodríguez, do you think it would interest some people from Spanish Wikisource to have a virtual meeting to discuss about welcoming newcomers at Wikisource, and how Growth tools could help?

Thank you!

Ignacio Rodríguez (talkcontribs)

I'm going to ask the broader community and tell you what they think.

Reply to "Consider Wikisource"
Gryllida (talkcontribs)

Hello MMiller, MFlorence, I would suggest to call the other contributors 'peers' rather than 'mentors'. In my view this would be a more balanced semantics in some wikis. Would you agree? Can this be made configurable on a per-wiki basis?

Ата (talkcontribs)

Aren't all users peers on wiki?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

In the context of the Growth features, "Mentors" is a role. Like "Admins, "bureaucrats", "Patrollers"... are role at the different wikis.

Mentors are experienced wikimedians who volunteer to reply to newcomers' questions.

The term "Mentor" is translatable wiki per wiki.

Reply to "Sister wikis"
NGC 54 (talkcontribs)
MMiller (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thanks for that note, @NGC 54. I think the idea behind that special page is similar to what our algorithm will be doing. The link recommendation algorithm is going to be finding articles that need lots of links added. They won't necessarily have zero links, but they will have fewer than other articles.

Reply to "Links suggestion"
Summary by Tacsipacsi
আফতাবুজ্জামান (talkcontribs)

I'm trying to add a template (bn:টেমপ্লেট:পরিষ্করণ) on bn:Mediawiki:NewcomerTasks.json using Special:EditGrowthConfig but it's not working. It's says "টেমপ্লেট:টেমপ্লেট:পরিষ্করণ-এর অস্তিত্ব নেই।" (Template:Template:পরিষ্করণ does not exist).

I tried adding "পরিষ্করণ" without prefix "টেমপ্লেট:" (template) but that is also not working.

1. I need guideline how to add template using Special:EditGrowthConfig (note: i successfully edited that on test wiki but for some reason not on bnwiki)

2. while doing that, when i submitted the edit, this happened. id changed to wikidata item id. Is it ok or should i revert the edit?

MMiller (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Martin Urbanec (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@আফতাবুজ্জামান Hello, thank you for reporting this bug! The special pag wants you to use no-prefix names. However, it looks there's a bug in the autocomplete mechanism, looking to the main namespace instead to the template one. As the form checks for existance of the template, it doesn't let you to add a page that's not suggested by the autocomplete, and as the suggestions are wrong, you're not allowed to add this template there.

I filled this autocomplete bug as T285748 to Phabricator. Since I'm not able to fix the cause, I also figured out a workaround, which you can see in T285750 in Phabricator.

Ad 1) Unfortunately, that's not possible via the form because of a bug. If you feel like it, you can try editing bn:MediaWiki:NewcomerTasks.json manually, or also I can do it for you. Alternatively, you can wait until the bug is fixed, and use the form then.

Ad 2) That's expected. We decided to start using Wikidata items as link IDs. It does not impact what the user sees, the link IDs only change what we the Growth team see as what link the newcomers click. This data helps us to understand newcomers better. That's also why it's not possible to change IDs in the form itself. Feel free to keep the edit in :).

I hope this helps. Do let me know if you have any other questions. Best,

আফতাবুজ্জামান (talkcontribs)

Thanks for answer.

Martin Urbanec (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@আফতাবুজ্জামান I just deployed a workaround for this bug. I tried to add the template through my staff account, and it worked (I self-reverted, as I'm not sure where that template is supposed to be). Could you try it again, please?

আফতাবুজ্জামান (talkcontribs)

Yes, it is working now. Thank you.

Martin Urbanec (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I'm glad to hear it! Closing this thread then :).

Notice about the medium and hard tasks

2
NGC 54 (talkcontribs)

After completing some linking and/or copyediting tasks, and if no medium/hard tasks are selected, users could be noticed again on Special:Homepage about updating, references adding and expanding. On Romanian Wikipedia, I do not see users updating, adding references or expanding (expanding I see, but seldom) when using Suggested Edits, only copyediting, adding links and vandalizing (see https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Schimb%C4%83ri_recente?hidebots=1&hidecategorization=1&hideWikibase=1&tagfilter=newcomer+task%7Chelp+panel+question&limit=1000&days=30&urlversion=2).

MMiller (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@NGC 54 -- that's right, we definitely want to work on this in the future. We think that if we see newcomers who are successfully accomplishing easy tasks, we could nudge them to try harder and more valuable ones. This is part of what we're thinking about in the upcoming "positive reinforcement" project.

Reply to "Notice about the medium and hard tasks"
NGC 54 (talkcontribs)
Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

EditorJourney is not available for your wiki. We are limiting the number of wikis where this tool is used, since it is collecting data. It is a lot of work to have it on more wikis, so we have decided not to deploy it anymore. But the report you link to is a good reflection of what people do when they create an account on Wikipedia, whatever the language.

Regarding the Welcome survey, I'm asking of some data could be available soon.

Reply to "Statistics for ro.wp"
Iniquity (talkcontribs)

@Trizek (WMF), hi :) Help me please. Do all newcomers get a mentor? Or only 80%?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello!

At the moment, the features are only given to 80% of newcomers. We plan to move to 100% soon, after our second look at the data. It is a work in progress, we expect the results to be published soon!

Martin Urbanec (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello @Iniquity and @Trizek (WMF), I'd like to clarify this a bit. While the features are enabled only to 80 % of newcomers, a mentor is assigned to everyone, including users who do not get the features. The assigned mentor is not used by MediaWiki itself, but it can be retreived through the magic keyword (#mentor) and used by on-wiki templates. That was decided in T275514. Best,

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Thank you very much for your reply! @Martin Urbanec (WMF), and for old users, those who were registered before Growth functions were deployed on wiki, a mentor is assigned?

Martin Urbanec (WMF) (talkcontribs)

No, and it also isn't assigned for people who did not get Growth features before T275514 was implemented.

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Ok, thanks :)

Reply to "Mentor and mentees"

Initial Editor settings for the New user

5
Summary by Whatamidoing (WMF)
Chaduvari (talkcontribs)

@Trizek (WMF), this is about my observation on tewiki.

New user has their editor preferences set as 2010 Wikitext editor. I think it should be Visual editor which makes editing easy and user-friendly for them. Can you please think it over.. thank you.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you for your feedback. I'm curious to know how you tested it. Here is what I did:

  1. I picked a random task from my Homepage,
  2. I click "Edit",
  3. I have the visual editor.

I did it using my work account and also a brand new test account.

At the moment, your wiki has one single "edit" tab. By default, clicking on it loads the visual editor for new users. If they switch to the 2010 wikitext editor when the edit and save from this editor, then the Edit tab will open the wikitext editor until the user switches back to the visual editor.

The help panel, shown when people work on suggested edits, encourage users to switch back to the visual editor.

Chaduvari (talkcontribs)

I created a new user and tested it. To recheck, I created another user today. After completing the survey, I went to my Homepage. From there, I went to edit a page. There I saw "Edit source" tab only. When I clicked it, it showed me 2010 Wikitext editor.

In the "edits" tab of the "preferences", the settings are like this:

  • "Enable the editing toolbar": Checked
  • "Temporarily disable the visual editor while it is in beta": Unchecked
  • In the "Editing mode:" drop-down list, "Remember my last editor" is selected
Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you. The visual editor is the default editor on your wiki.

@Whatamidoing (WMF), did I miss something on this issue? Why some new users get the wikitext editor on te.wp?

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I'm not sure what's going on, but I've filed a bug report, and the devs will look into it.

Reply to "Initial Editor settings for the New user"

Change request in the Post welcome survey path

2
Chaduvari (talkcontribs)

@Trizek (WMF)

This is about tewiki.

Post survey submission, the newcomer is taken to a page where it is asking to choose a destination from

1. where the newcomer came form (lets call it "referring page") and 2. newcomer Homepage.

If the newcomer chooses the referring page, there is a chance that the newcomer may not remember to go to his Homepage after that. The very purpose of the project is defeated at this point.

Please see if it can be changed as -

The newcomer will be taken to the Homepage after the survey. There, they will be asked if they want to go the trigger page. This way, they will not miss the friendly homepage, and the mentor.

Thank you

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello @Chaduvari

The newcomer is supposed to get a pop-up that shows the user page link, and sans something like "there is your homepage, don't forget to visit it".

We had to make a choice between forwarding users who create an account to immediately edit a page, compared to the ones who just create an account. We choose to give a choice to the user. :)

Reply to "Change request in the Post welcome survey path"

Handle newcomers mentor assignment when a mentor quits

11
Summary by Trizek (WMF)
Ainali (talkcontribs)

What happens if a mentor removes themselves from the list (if they for some reasons don't want to continue being a mentor)? Will the newcomer get a new mentor automatically (and if so, will they be notified)?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Once a user has been assigned a mentor, they keep that mentor even if the mentor removes themselves from the active mentor list.

The workaround is to use Special:ClaimMentee. It can be used by any other mentor who monitors the retired mentor's talk page so that they can empty the list of active newcomers for this retired mentor.

We are working on plans about scaling and improving tools for mentors. In your opinion, what would be the ideal solution for this situation? :)

Ainali (talkcontribs)

I guess the tricky part is to know which newcomers were assigned to this mentor. Or is this information public somewhere?

NGC 54 (talkcontribs)
Nux (talkcontribs)

The magic word is not a solution to this. It's just one user and it is actually the other way around. It shows a mentor for specific mentee. It would help if it would show all mentees for a specific mentor.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

A tool that reassign mentees en masse would help there? You put a mentor's name in it and all mentees are reassigned. This is covered by T272376, as you know. :)

Nux (talkcontribs)

Yes. That would be great 🙂. I'm sometimes curios how many mentees I have, but I don't really need that info.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

We have a project to have a mentor dashboard which could potentially include an overview of your mentees :)

Ainali (talkcontribs)

Thanks for the answer.

One simple idea that we got was just to randomly assign a new mentor and then give a notification to the newcomer what has happened.

NGC 54 (talkcontribs)

I support this idea.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

The idea of automatically reassign activated mentees to new mentors when their mentor quits or is blocked is tracked as T272376, where I'm going to add your feedback.

Reply to "Handle newcomers mentor assignment when a mentor quits"
Return to "Growth" page.