Talk:Growth

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Discussion related to the old Growth team is archived at Talk:Growth/Growth 2014.

Unable to add template on bn:মিডিয়াউইকি:NewcomerTasks.json using Special:EditGrowthConfig

7
Summary by Tacsipacsi
আফতাবুজ্জামান (talkcontribs)

I'm trying to add a template (bn:টেমপ্লেট:পরিষ্করণ) on bn:Mediawiki:NewcomerTasks.json using Special:EditGrowthConfig but it's not working. It's says "টেমপ্লেট:টেমপ্লেট:পরিষ্করণ-এর অস্তিত্ব নেই।" (Template:Template:পরিষ্করণ does not exist).

I tried adding "পরিষ্করণ" without prefix "টেমপ্লেট:" (template) but that is also not working.

1. I need guideline how to add template using Special:EditGrowthConfig (note: i successfully edited that on test wiki but for some reason not on bnwiki)

2. while doing that, when i submitted the edit, this happened. id changed to wikidata item id. Is it ok or should i revert the edit?

MMiller (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Martin Urbanec (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@আফতাবুজ্জামান Hello, thank you for reporting this bug! The special pag wants you to use no-prefix names. However, it looks there's a bug in the autocomplete mechanism, looking to the main namespace instead to the template one. As the form checks for existance of the template, it doesn't let you to add a page that's not suggested by the autocomplete, and as the suggestions are wrong, you're not allowed to add this template there.

I filled this autocomplete bug as T285748 to Phabricator. Since I'm not able to fix the cause, I also figured out a workaround, which you can see in T285750 in Phabricator.

Ad 1) Unfortunately, that's not possible via the form because of a bug. If you feel like it, you can try editing bn:MediaWiki:NewcomerTasks.json manually, or also I can do it for you. Alternatively, you can wait until the bug is fixed, and use the form then.

Ad 2) That's expected. We decided to start using Wikidata items as link IDs. It does not impact what the user sees, the link IDs only change what we the Growth team see as what link the newcomers click. This data helps us to understand newcomers better. That's also why it's not possible to change IDs in the form itself. Feel free to keep the edit in :).

I hope this helps. Do let me know if you have any other questions. Best,

আফতাবুজ্জামান (talkcontribs)

Thanks for answer.

Martin Urbanec (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@আফতাবুজ্জামান I just deployed a workaround for this bug. I tried to add the template through my staff account, and it worked (I self-reverted, as I'm not sure where that template is supposed to be). Could you try it again, please?

আফতাবুজ্জামান (talkcontribs)

Yes, it is working now. Thank you.

Martin Urbanec (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I'm glad to hear it! Closing this thread then :).

Notice about the medium and hard tasks

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NGC 54 (talkcontribs)

After completing some linking and/or copyediting tasks, and if no medium/hard tasks are selected, users could be noticed again on Special:Homepage about updating, references adding and expanding. On Romanian Wikipedia, I do not see users updating, adding references or expanding (expanding I see, but seldom) when using Suggested Edits, only copyediting, adding links and vandalizing (see https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Schimb%C4%83ri_recente?hidebots=1&hidecategorization=1&hideWikibase=1&tagfilter=newcomer+task%7Chelp+panel+question&limit=1000&days=30&urlversion=2).

MMiller (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@NGC 54 -- that's right, we definitely want to work on this in the future. We think that if we see newcomers who are successfully accomplishing easy tasks, we could nudge them to try harder and more valuable ones. This is part of what we're thinking about in the upcoming "positive reinforcement" project.

Reply to "Notice about the medium and hard tasks"
NGC 54 (talkcontribs)
MMiller (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thanks for that note, @NGC 54. I think the idea behind that special page is similar to what our algorithm will be doing. The link recommendation algorithm is going to be finding articles that need lots of links added. They won't necessarily have zero links, but they will have fewer than other articles.

Reply to "Links suggestion"
NGC 54 (talkcontribs)
Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

EditorJourney is not available for your wiki. We are limiting the number of wikis where this tool is used, since it is collecting data. It is a lot of work to have it on more wikis, so we have decided not to deploy it anymore. But the report you link to is a good reflection of what people do when they create an account on Wikipedia, whatever the language.

Regarding the Welcome survey, I'm asking of some data could be available soon.

Reply to "Statistics for ro.wp"
Iniquity (talkcontribs)

@Trizek (WMF), hi :) Help me please. Do all newcomers get a mentor? Or only 80%?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello!

At the moment, the features are only given to 80% of newcomers. We plan to move to 100% soon, after our second look at the data. It is a work in progress, we expect the results to be published soon!

Martin Urbanec (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello @Iniquity and @Trizek (WMF), I'd like to clarify this a bit. While the features are enabled only to 80 % of newcomers, a mentor is assigned to everyone, including users who do not get the features. The assigned mentor is not used by MediaWiki itself, but it can be retreived through the magic keyword (#mentor) and used by on-wiki templates. That was decided in T275514. Best,

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Thank you very much for your reply! @Martin Urbanec (WMF), and for old users, those who were registered before Growth functions were deployed on wiki, a mentor is assigned?

Martin Urbanec (WMF) (talkcontribs)

No, and it also isn't assigned for people who did not get Growth features before T275514 was implemented.

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Ok, thanks :)

Reply to "Mentor and mentees"

Initial Editor settings for the New user

5
Summary by Whatamidoing (WMF)
Chaduvari (talkcontribs)

@Trizek (WMF), this is about my observation on tewiki.

New user has their editor preferences set as 2010 Wikitext editor. I think it should be Visual editor which makes editing easy and user-friendly for them. Can you please think it over.. thank you.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you for your feedback. I'm curious to know how you tested it. Here is what I did:

  1. I picked a random task from my Homepage,
  2. I click "Edit",
  3. I have the visual editor.

I did it using my work account and also a brand new test account.

At the moment, your wiki has one single "edit" tab. By default, clicking on it loads the visual editor for new users. If they switch to the 2010 wikitext editor when the edit and save from this editor, then the Edit tab will open the wikitext editor until the user switches back to the visual editor.

The help panel, shown when people work on suggested edits, encourage users to switch back to the visual editor.

Chaduvari (talkcontribs)

I created a new user and tested it. To recheck, I created another user today. After completing the survey, I went to my Homepage. From there, I went to edit a page. There I saw "Edit source" tab only. When I clicked it, it showed me 2010 Wikitext editor.

In the "edits" tab of the "preferences", the settings are like this:

  • "Enable the editing toolbar": Checked
  • "Temporarily disable the visual editor while it is in beta": Unchecked
  • In the "Editing mode:" drop-down list, "Remember my last editor" is selected
Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you. The visual editor is the default editor on your wiki.

@Whatamidoing (WMF), did I miss something on this issue? Why some new users get the wikitext editor on te.wp?

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I'm not sure what's going on, but I've filed a bug report, and the devs will look into it.

Reply to "Initial Editor settings for the New user"

Change request in the Post welcome survey path

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Chaduvari (talkcontribs)

@Trizek (WMF)

This is about tewiki.

Post survey submission, the newcomer is taken to a page where it is asking to choose a destination from

1. where the newcomer came form (lets call it "referring page") and 2. newcomer Homepage.

If the newcomer chooses the referring page, there is a chance that the newcomer may not remember to go to his Homepage after that. The very purpose of the project is defeated at this point.

Please see if it can be changed as -

The newcomer will be taken to the Homepage after the survey. There, they will be asked if they want to go the trigger page. This way, they will not miss the friendly homepage, and the mentor.

Thank you

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello @Chaduvari

The newcomer is supposed to get a pop-up that shows the user page link, and sans something like "there is your homepage, don't forget to visit it".

We had to make a choice between forwarding users who create an account to immediately edit a page, compared to the ones who just create an account. We choose to give a choice to the user. :)

Reply to "Change request in the Post welcome survey path"

Handle newcomers mentor assignment when a mentor quits

11
Summary by Trizek (WMF)
Ainali (talkcontribs)

What happens if a mentor removes themselves from the list (if they for some reasons don't want to continue being a mentor)? Will the newcomer get a new mentor automatically (and if so, will they be notified)?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Once a user has been assigned a mentor, they keep that mentor even if the mentor removes themselves from the active mentor list.

The workaround is to use Special:ClaimMentee. It can be used by any other mentor who monitors the retired mentor's talk page so that they can empty the list of active newcomers for this retired mentor.

We are working on plans about scaling and improving tools for mentors. In your opinion, what would be the ideal solution for this situation? :)

Ainali (talkcontribs)

I guess the tricky part is to know which newcomers were assigned to this mentor. Or is this information public somewhere?

NGC 54 (talkcontribs)
Nux (talkcontribs)

The magic word is not a solution to this. It's just one user and it is actually the other way around. It shows a mentor for specific mentee. It would help if it would show all mentees for a specific mentor.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

A tool that reassign mentees en masse would help there? You put a mentor's name in it and all mentees are reassigned. This is covered by T272376, as you know. :)

Nux (talkcontribs)

Yes. That would be great 🙂. I'm sometimes curios how many mentees I have, but I don't really need that info.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

We have a project to have a mentor dashboard which could potentially include an overview of your mentees :)

Ainali (talkcontribs)

Thanks for the answer.

One simple idea that we got was just to randomly assign a new mentor and then give a notification to the newcomer what has happened.

NGC 54 (talkcontribs)

I support this idea.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

The idea of automatically reassign activated mentees to new mentors when their mentor quits or is blocked is tracked as T272376, where I'm going to add your feedback.

Reply to "Handle newcomers mentor assignment when a mentor quits"
NGC 54 (talkcontribs)

Linking to Wikidata could be another "medium" task.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you for this suggestion. However, we prefer to keep things on Wikipedia for now, to avoid confusion by editing across the wikis.

MMiller (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@NGC 54 -- thanks for the idea! Could you explain more about what this task would include? What would the newcomers link to Wikidata?

NGC 54 (talkcontribs)
Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

So it would be about including newly created articles to Wikidata?

NGC 54 (talkcontribs)

@Trizek (WMF): Not only "newly". For example, on Romanian Wikipedia () there are some articles unconnected to Wikidata. However, I see that this task would be suitable only for some wikis, where there are articles that have this issue.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you. As you say, we are trying to create tools with an universal use. But this issue is real and should be kept in mind.

Reply to "Wikidata"
NGC 54 (talkcontribs)

I see that there is an empty space between "Suggested edits", "Your impact", "Your mentor" and "Get help with editing" modules. Is there any proposed module for that empty space?

I do not see a "Ask the Help Desk" button in Homepage; a similar button would be useful (to choose ask the mentor or ask the Help Desk).

Why the "Create a new article" task cannot be checked? If it is not a real task, it could be integrated somewhere else, but the users still need a tutorial about how to create an article (where the notability is also described). "Create a new article" could be another module, but in this case it should be recommended to edit before that (with "Suggested edits").

Also, a tutorial about translating pages would be good (with ContentTranslation and with a draft/subpage in "User page").

MMiller (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi @NGC 54 -- you bring up an interesting point about having the "ask the help desk" button on the homepage. In the first version of the homepage we actually did include both buttons. Here is a screenshot. But we found that the "mentor" button got about 15 times more questions than the "help desk" button. Based on how obvious it was that users preferred to ask mentors, we removed the "help desk" option in order to simplify the page.

Regarding content translation, we are planning an integration! The Language team is starting to roll out the "section translation" capability, which we think will be easier for newcomers than translating full articles (and it works on mobile). The idea would be that users could select "section translation" as a task, and then the feed would list articles that need sections translated. When the newcomer selects an article, it would take them to the Content Translation tool. How does that sound? Do you think that would work well?

NGC 54 (talkcontribs)

Ok.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Current state of the Homepage

I think you don't see the Impact module. But this module is default. Can you compare with the screenshot?

The "ask the help desk" button is supposed to be displayed on the help panel, not on the Homepage. Maybe you found an out-of-date information on a project page. Do you have a link to it?

Create a new article is a very often requested task. As a volunteer mentor on French Wikipedia, I got this question every 3 questions. The goal with this greyed box is to encourage newcomers to do the other tasks beforehand. We kept this box as a placeholder, and as an encouragement to do the other tasks. Plus, on wikis where the tools are active, there is a link that goes to the local article wizard.

At the moment, we have no plans regarding the development of things around this box, but we are considering to have something around translations. For now, we are exploring this possibility by asking people who create a new account if they can work on translations. We use the Welcome Survey for this.

NGC 54 (talkcontribs)

I see the "Your impact" module.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Where is your empty space then?

NGC 54 (talkcontribs)
Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Ha, yes. So we have the same thing. :)

It is normal. We may have some new modules coming there at some point.

NGC 54 (talkcontribs)

Another possible task:

  • Adding an image
  • Uploading an image
  • Adding a category
  • Creating a category
  • Creating a redirection
Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you for your suggestions.

We are currently working on adding an image.

We have discarded uploading an image, due to the complexity of copyright. Also, we focus on Wikipedia, and uploading images is more a Wikimedia Commons thing.

Concerning the other suggestions, how do you think newcomers will appreciate them?

Reply to "Homepage"
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