Talk:Growth

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Discussion related to the old Growth team is archived at Talk:Growth/Growth 2014.

"Shorter version" should be put on jawp:Announcements

9
Omotecho (talkcontribs)

@Trizek (WMF): , Hi, I enjoy translating Growth Newsletter time to tome. I wish to convey you voices from jawp editors/users, mainly two points which tastes kind of sharp but the reality: There are inputs suggesting that providing News in full in foreign language is not a very wise choice, whichever WMF team initiates. If you want ppl to read and join you, please reconsider and perhaps tailor made the outreach to each local language and page you target.

The Growth Newsletter is a treasure trove, full of passionate reports and invitations, surely. But, maybe too big/too rich to publish on the present format, causing heart-burns? FYI, the Announcement page functions on jawp as a day-to-day bulletin board, very practical similar to old-fashioned, such like "lost-and-found". Could we make something as short as 200 words to introduce a new issue of Growth Newsletter?

I'll be frank to relay the murmurs of jawp editors.

  • Growth Newsletter is too long and chokes other more practical announcements that needs attention for more concrete and urgent matters;
  • Esp that Newsletter is not popular not inviting: why published in English on local page?
  • When you do need to discuss further and in details, that is up to each reader. Do not nag in loud voice at me; If some group publish long long newsletter solely written in Japanese, are the enwp editors ready to accept such dis-manner?

We can publish shorter, Table_of_Contents type of circulars provided in local language. As much as the Newsletter is thought provoking, you need time to read. If TOC type of circular is published, and somebody finds a topic in it interesting, then they will set aside time to read the details. Don't we attract more insights in return on the talkpage, maybe? That way, at least it will be reader friendly publication. And at the most, that will open many doors across languages, I cross my fingers.

Good example is that from the Tech team (Tech News, published weekly). For the contents, we can't compare tech-related reports/announcements to what Growth team heads for, though, for readers, what is more handy?

Please take time and comprehend that each wiki needs Announcement pages for their own use, too.

Addendum: If I may translate the unspoken thoughts of jawp editors very plainly. "We are pushed into Knowledge Gap whenever we see lengthy announcement in English. Many teams of WMF tries to outreach through Announcement page. Surely, that and Village Pump is open to anybody including the Foundation, but actually the publication format unnerves ppl even to doubt the intention. Why is WMF utilizing jawp and its local hub of information as a dish to serve things in non-Japanese language? Are they sure ppl will spend time reading it with dictionary? No budget or resources for Knowledge equity? Squatting lines after lines in non-Japanese language is very rude in ja culture, because English is not a local language: it stands against the pride Wikipedia community holds in providing knowledge in native language."

IMHO, the above underlines the editors' discomfort, which we seldom tell somebody causing such situation, as taling back in English is not what ppl care. Dis-communication on the surface, but backed with cultural ethics. Let's look into how practically we convey the activities and resources the Newsletter delivers to people. I stand by the hours and researches each writer has poured into very rich content on each issue, and Newsletter should never contribute and have readers-to-be earmark "Growth-things", look away and negate. Ping me, and I'll try and find time to support TOC translation when you are ready.

KStoller-WMF (talkcontribs)

@Omotecho thank you for spending the time to offer such detailed feedback!

I'm the Product Manager of the Growth team and I think a lot about how we can better involve and communicate with all of the wikis and languages we build products for. It's certainly a challenge to find the right level of detail for our communication, and ensure it's translated and properly localized!

We currently post more detailed Weekly Updates (which I see you've also helped translate - thank you!) and the Newsletter is meant to be a more widely shared and succinct overview of our work. However, based on your feedback, it sounds like we should aim to make the Newsletters even more succinct in the future and ideally make sure it is fully translated before it is shared.

Once @Trizek (WMF) returns, I'll discuss your feedback further with him and make sure it is also shared more widely with Wikimedia Foundation Community Relations Specialists. Our Community Relations Specialist team has a far deeper understanding of how to prepare and deliver multilingual newsletters than I do, so I imagine they may have other ideas for how we can improve communication.

Thanks again for taking the time to provide feedback! @Trizek (WMF) is working to improve the Growth team's communication strategy, so we will certainly use your feedback when considering improvements to how we communicate.

Omotecho (talkcontribs)

@KStoller-WMF: Appreciate so much for your prompt attention. Yes, please ping me anytime, and I will link you to the latest local discussion that if Wikipedia:Announcement/ja should segregate any Newsletter or message from WMF staffer into a subpage.

That motion was turned down for knowledge equity on global standard, and IMHO not sure how long we opposers could hold back if the same proposal will be made, as the WMF input looks flooding lately, even to a bilingual person. Expecting that trend will accelerate makes me worry very much as on the US calendar, we are in Q3-FY2022 now.

Could we also cast a light on different Fiscal Year systems?

FYI, past the New Year’s holiday, our social calendar in Japan moves on to the last quarter for Fiscal Year 2022, or the Q4-FY2022, on an April-March calendar: I suppose the Foundation will be in the Q3-FY2022, June-May, and activities can be in fuller swing, much more to share globally than the previous Q2 (November 2022).

Such gap of time frame based on different Fiscal Year Calendar (FY), and how practitioners plan their workflow. On June-May FY system, I suppose you have more time to move things on in January, before the dawn/Q4-2022. On the contrary, Japan (and a few other countries/regions) is toward the deep night/recounting a year in Q4.

That suggests cases in Q4 workflow: discussions starting in Q4 with a non-Wikimedia partner/a public sector rather leave over a new agenda into future FYs in Japan. Then June, not April, will be when public offices and legislatures in Japan practically start the real work for, say FY2023. Because the Diet approves the Supplementary Budget for that FY by the last week of May.

Private sectors in Japan, including ja Wikimedia community and events/program organizers, and WMF Grantees, negotiate with public sectors and may need to set aside the waiting period April-May. You will be 100% sure official decisions is final and safe to give a go to local projects.

So going full circle, news needs to be fresh thus Newsletters are valued. Degrading factors such as FY systems might least affect "call for actions" go old or expired, if we plan timing and see how we pitch the ball (news) and hit, catch, and pass among us. I hope translation is a wide receiver mid-fielder to speak, enjoyable task if given enough time ahead. (※ = prefix "Wikipedia:" is applied on jawp; "Project:" on other /jp MW wikis, and enwp.)

Cheers,

KStoller-WMF (talkcontribs)

Thanks again for the details!

I've asked the Senior Manager of the WMF Community Relations Specialists team to review your thoughts, since this is definitely an issue that is more global than the Growth team.

Some of our staff have already started a winter holiday break, so your concerns might not be reviewed until January 2023, but I'll be sure they are discussed with other WMF staff soon. Thank you for spending the time to pass along your feedback and concerns!

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello @Omotecho, and thank you for sharing your feedback and ideas with us. Japanese Wikipedia has the reputation of being a difficult to reach community, so I'm happy that you share this feedback with us. Also, I'm sorry for the late reply, but I took some time off.

Your message reflects some feedback I already heard, regarding the length of our newsletter and its content. It is a challenge, and it is a challenge for all newsletters. Hence I will split my reply in to parts, one covering the overall newsletters' challenges, and the other covering Growth challenges.

Regarding newsletters challenges

Community Relations Specialists take care of newsletters. Since I joined, newsletters have been a challenge. Our goal is to provide newsletter in the best format, in the right length and with comfortable options for translations.

We get feedback in favor of all possible (and conflicting) options: longer or shorter newsletters, translated versus untranslated but in a simpler English contents (even if translated contents have more supporters), posting at community boards versus posting at individuals talk pages, etc. Even the most appreciated newsletter we care about, Tech News, get some conflicting opinions about its content. :)

What is the best option regarding English versus local language? Should we offer information in English, even if not everyone can get the information or is frustrated by it, or not posting at all if we don't cover the local language? I'm personally in favor of posting in English if no translation has been provided, as the important thing is to inform users.

An other question Community Engagement has is about translations. It is difficult to find translators, and communities complain about it as they get the messages in English, with no way to translate it in an easy way after posting. Also, if the newsletter has a short edition, or partially translated, or if it redirects to a page in English, will it suit all users' needs? Of course, we have received some suggestions around paying translators, but we have more than 300 languages to take care of, and prioritizing one over another may feel unfair.

We also have the question of the right place where to post. We observe community pages that are full of announcements and newsletters, and we have no clue if the contents are read. We also have some communities asking us to post at a given page, knowing that it is a dead end as nobody goes there. So I like a lot the fact that you contacted us to improve the contents!

I took good note of the quarters' cultural differences. This is something I'll carefully consider on further publications. This is typically the king of feedback we look for. WMF fiscal year starts in July. It might be different and not standardized: I asked my relatives about their businesses, and they start their fiscal year respectively in October and January (case of businesses in France). The important point is to tell when the year starts, or to offer better timeframes. Instead of saying "In fiscal year Q3..." we should write "Starting in January...".

Regarding Growth newsletter

As @KStoller-WMF mentions, we are refining our communication strategy. We look for feedback and we test new approches.

One of the changes is the Highlights section in the newsletter. The goal is to have the essential information being displayed for users who just skim the newsletter. Maybe we could only send this short version to users who'd like to get the most important news? We have to find a good balance as we also hear from people who like the level of detail we provide. Out of curiosity, how would you summarize the latest Growth newsletter in 200 words?

We are also want to know more about our target audience. We want to inform experienced editors primary. We have two kind of users we'd like to target: the ones who care about newcomers, and the ones who are curious about changes we provide to newcomers' first steps. I'm taking the opportunity here to ask you about these users (of course without putting aside the rest of the conversation): are they profiles we can find at Japanese Wikipedia? Could they be interested by a conversation about which information they look for? Also, is Wikipedia:お知らせ/ウィキメディア共通 the right place to post the Growth newsletter?

As a conclusion (for now)

I'm really curious about any other feedback or idea you might have, so as on-wiki conversations you could share with us. We look for feedback to improve our services, and this conversation is promising. Again, thank you very much for starting it.

Omotecho (talkcontribs)

Happy New Year to you and your team! Right, I also share the many challenges Growth team has looked into, as I am saddened how ja community distances thmeselves from the Community sphere as if we are a loner, even in the 2020s. I appreciate you have come up with the Forum where any language is accepted, and wish it will live long.

The discomfort that ringers in ja community.

IMHO, one thing is that jawp is a group of writers and editors, period. Many inputs from WMF (news/newsletters/notices etc) are felt as coming _down_ to bother writership, misunderstood as the act of bureaucracy (pardon me for the sharp taste).

  • There is a ja expression, "上位下達" (jōi katatsu) that somebody/something on a very high parch drops anything down out of the blue, regardless of how the downstairs' residences appreciate/dislikes;
  • Obviously, free riding, or piggybacking on WMF servers does not irritate your feeling of fairness in ja culture, thus prevents you to think about your share is what you care and act for. (sigh)

How WMF has began walking with each community/Hubs, and I wish it will be appreciated how it will make our editorship/readership sustain and extend. Well, naturally, it involves much reading assignments: newsletters in en floods your inboxes, no way to catch up the volume if you are so thrilled to edit/write encyclopedia.

Wikipedia:お知らせ/ウィキメディア共通

literally, the subpage is a ja:announcement:wikimedia_subjects, to save space for jawp specific topics/action items.

  • those who care about how ja community will sort out newsletters has decided to arrange the inbox into multiple layers. That is hoped to yield the negative feelings soiling how information is shared:
  • Important and friendly message from WMF teams are buried and choked because of the total volume; the volume is not functioning to extend knowledge, rather ends up WMF teams competing for attention, no winner;
  • on top of that, at the moment, the subpage kind of looks like a closet that things are thrown in at random; you can't dig out your favorite raincoat;
  • if the newsletters are easily sorted, not by the readers, but by the posters. Icons? Color bands on its headline? Visual identity might help readers stop ignoring easily, go harvest their pick and become regular supporters.
Disorientation about how WMF and its reams are laid0out;

Does WMF has a simplified chart of teams/departments, or can we offer a navbox type of sorter? In Japanese society, we always look for charts how an institution or NPO lays out its sections;

  • If you imagine the diagram laying out 10 metro lines posted above metro ticket vending machines in Tokyo. Maybe we could mend the disoriented feeling to how WMF functions day-to-day. Myself, too, loves to know the directory, not as a chart of power, but rather to save time and find the better reception desk where I will consult.
  • How about categorizing newsletters to specific topic of interest? Digging into the mass of newsletters is not handy without proper cues. Esp when you are a writer/editor much more used to look at the page bottom and care about the categories. I guess it involves community discussion locally and name categories or not?
200 words' newsletter

As a translator, my analog sense of word count is bound by 200-400-600 and so forth to translation source in en: it will fit to approx. 400 characters in ja the maximum, even when I embed translator's note to terminology. 400 characters are a volume you digest and comprehend the contents as a reader with out too much pain;

  • the Tech News wisely fits its word count into the range of short memory circuit I guess; like giing external or interwiki links, can't we engineer our newsletters that way? For Growth newsletter, we have TOC page separate from the full-length one, and that TOC will function well to fit short memory circuit, that the essence of each issue will reach to wider readers: novice/Junior and hardcore/passionate but searching for what you can do; to Senior and believe you know the map, rather hesitate to try newer path, but somehow confident you will lead the way if the input is translated.

What I wish to change will be: I wish to catch up before those notices arrive on ja communities in raw form, or in en; you can bring a horse to the riverbank, but can't force it to drink, you know...

  • many notices are yet to be perceived as a chance to tell what you feel, even though more meetings invites you with interpreters/pre-posted list of agenda; offered in en, then instantly counted out as another thing "not mine", and unread, rot (archived).

Basic understanding of how we all support the Wikimedia is less comprehended in ja community as I see;

  • some clutch their arms and very much sound as if preaching new comers that you don't go near WMF-ish things, as they came _after_ Wikipedia came into our world;
  • it might have looked/sounded cool (in the 2010s), but no more, as I eyewitness more newcomers to jump over the fence and reach out to Meta or Mediawiki;
  • too bad that those jumped into wider Wikimedia sphere stumbles as the common/standard language, English, is a too wide a ditch in front of you.

Even after newsletters be offered in translation, it might not change drastically how ja community members are motivated to read more input from WMF. A jawp editor/writer is too afraid to allow themselves and spend time reading things not directly contributes to the article page(s), in which you pour your free hours to comb and brush up. How can we change that superstitious thinking pattern? What can we sell better to those picky buyers of information?

Tacsipacsi (talkcontribs)

if the newsletters are easily sorted, not by the readers, but by the posters. Icons? Color bands on its headline? Visual identity might help readers stop ignoring easily, go harvest their pick and become regular supporters.

The problem with any visual distinction is that if a wiki doesn’t have a separate page for newsletters (most wikis don’t have, they’re just thrown on village pumps), these visually distinguished messages sent by some outsiders (from the wiki’s point of view) are much more prominent than messages sent by users of the given wiki, specifically aimed at users of that wiki. What could work is wrapping the message in MediaWiki messages that don’t do anything by default, but can be locally overridden to provide styling, like

{{MediaWiki:wikimedia-newsletter-start|growth}}
...
{{MediaWiki:wikimedia-newsletter-end|growth}}

(these two messages need to be defined as empty in the WikimediaMessages extension). Japanese Wikipedia could override them to respectively open and close a colored <div> (or add an icon in the opening one or whatever you want).

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello

A quick update about these topics: as we will improve the Growth team's communication strategy, the ideas and suggestions shared here will be tested when possible. To be continued. :)

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

A new issue is ready for translation.

We tried to keep it short.

With this newsletter, we test a solution to reach more translators. We offer a new option for translators to be informed of a new issue, by receiving a message directly on their talk page. Please signup for next issues!

Reply to ""Shorter version" should be put on jawp:Announcements"

Mentoring function analytics

19
Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Hi all! I want to host a small conference/meeting for Russian wikipedia mentors. What analytics do you think would be interesting/useful? Have you had any meeting experience?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)
KStoller-WMF (talkcontribs)

Hello @Iniquity, thanks for considering hosting a conference for mentors!

The Growth team recently added more mentor-related analytics to the Growth Team Product KPIs dashboard. You can narrow down and see just the ruwiki metrics here. Scroll down to learn where most mentor questions are posted/asked (from the newcomer homepage mentorship module or the help panel). You can also see graphs showing how many "automatically assigned" mentors are active, the number of newcomers registering per mentor, and the number of inactive mentors.

Notice that you can adjust the date rage at top, and that most of the Mentorship graphs have an "i" info icon you can click on to get more information about the metric.

Does that help? Let us know if you have further questions about mentorship analytics, as we are open to adding in more data based on community requests.

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Hello everyone :) Thanks for the links, I knew about them, but looked again. From the statistics, I'd like something about the "growth" of success.

For example:

1. How many newbies asked questions via the help panel or module on the home page in two years

2. How many of them received their answers in two years

3. How many "suggested edits" were made in two years, and how many of them were rolled back.

4. It would be very interesting to know the statistics on the "welcome survey".

5. Statistics on "popular topics" for "suggested edits". What topics are usually chosen for editing.

6. Some statistics on retention due to the "work of mentors".

KStoller-WMF (talkcontribs)

@Iniquity Thanks for the feedback!

1. How many newbies asked questions via the help panel or module on the home page in two years

Russian Wikipedia’s Special:Tags page gives the following count for the various edit tags:

  • help panel question: 441 edits
  • mentorship module question: 7,649 edits
  • mentorship panel question: 1,614 edits

3. How many "suggested edits" were made in two years, and how many of them were rolled back.

You can see graphs for #1 and #3 in Grafana (although not all the way back 2 years), but I assume you want to see an easy "total", not just the graph. Correct? Let me see if I can grab this data for you ASAP.

2. How many of them received their answers in two years

@Martin Urbanec (WMF) we have metrics on how many mentor questions are asked, but is there a way to also include how many questions received answers? Or perhaps just a percentage of mentee questions that are answered?

4. It would be very interesting to know the statistics on the "welcome survey".

Agreed, we've talked about making this info more publicly accessible, but it's not as straightforward as other aggregate data. We also only retain this data temporarily, so that's another consideration. @Trizek (WMF) I'm not seeing a Phab task for this, do you think we should add one?

5. Statistics on "popular topics" for "suggested edits". What topics are usually chosen for editing.

Interesting, I'll chat with our Data Scientist about this. I know we hope to switch to a language agnostic topic model in the future, so we might want to wait on this one.

6. Some statistics on retention due to the "work of mentors".

I'll chat with our Data Scientist about this one too. My guess is that this might be a challenge to add to a dashboard, but we are certainly looking at retention closely with the Positive Reinforcement project, and particularly at how encouragement from mentors (personalized praise) might help with retention, so hopefully we will at least have some data around retention and mentorship to share early next year.

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

@KStoller-WMF, thanks for detaled answer!

> Russian Wikipedia’s Special:Tags page gives the following count for the various edit tags:

I know that beginners can ask a few questions to the mentor. Are there clear statistics on users not edits? :)

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

You mean the number of users who ask questions, instead of the number of edits tagged?

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Yep, I am :)

KStoller-WMF (talkcontribs)

@Iniquity

Sorry for the delay, I wanted our data scientist to double-check the data I pulled before I shared it:

How many "suggested edits" were made in two years, and how many of them were rolled back.

  • 74,088 newcomer tasks were made on Russian wikipedia between Nov 1, 2020 - Oct 31, 2022.
  • 6,138 reverts of newcomer tasks on Russian wikipedia between Nov 1, 2020 - Oct 31, 2022.
  • So in the last two years, about 8% of newcomer tasks on Russian wikipedia were reverted.

Some statistics on retention due to the "work of mentors".

We should have more data to share on this after our Positive Reinforcement project. :)

It would be very interesting to know the statistics on the "welcome survey".

Last month, between Nov 1, 2022 - Nov 30, 2022, it looks like about 49% of newcomers complete the welcome survey (it's not required). Of those that complete the survey, for the first question Why did you create your account today? the responses were as follows:

~ 37% To create a new Wikipedia article

~ 19% To read Wikipedia

~ 13% To add or change information to a Wikipedia article

~ 11% To fix a typo or error in a Wikipedia article

~ 1 % To add a photo or image to a Wikipedia article

~ 3 % I'm participating in a program, class, or event

~ 16% Other or N/A


Let me know if you are interested in other welcome survey data and I can grab more info for you.

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

> Last month, between Nov 1, 2021 - Nov 30, 2022,

Last month or last year? :)

KStoller-WMF (talkcontribs)

Ack, sorry, typo! That should have said "Last month, between Nov 1, 2022 - Nov 30, 2022"

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Thanks for the stats! I will use it at my next meeting :)

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Is there any statistics on how many newcomers register from mobile, and how many from desktop?

KStoller-WMF (talkcontribs)
Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Thanks! :)

> However, you would prefer to see that first graph (Newly registered users on Russian Wikipedia) but split by Mobile and Desktop, correct?

Yes, I would like to understand how to make help documentation, and whether it is necessary to focus on mobile users..

KStoller-WMF (talkcontribs)

Ok, understood. I'll look into this, but I likely won't have an answer for you until January.

Thanks for thinking about documentation improvements for new editors. I'll chat with you in 2023!  :)

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Thank you! I will wait for it :)

KStoller-WMF (talkcontribs)

@Iniquity I don't have data yet for all of 2022, but here's some data from 2021 for Russian Wikipedia:

About 36% of accounts created were created from a mobile device.

Mobile users were less likely to Activate as compared with Desktop users.

Mobile users were less likely to be Retained as compared with Desktop users.

Registration only counts users who self-registered on the given wiki (meaning autocreated accounts and accounts created by others are ignored).
Activation means making at least one edit within 24 hours after registration.
Retention means a user was activated and then went on to make at least one edit over the next two weeks after their first 24 hours.

Hope that helps!

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Thanks a lot! Yes, that's what I need! :)

Reply to "Mentoring function analytics"
37.103.1.0 (talkcontribs)
KStoller-WMF (talkcontribs)

Hello, sorry for the frustration!

The Growth Team is currently the maintainer of Recent changes, so we appreciate you reporting this discussion.

Unfortunately I don't know of any Growth team work that would have caused this change. Perhaps @Trizek (WMF) or @KHarlan (WMF) can track down more information for us?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Bonjour

Le gras et les cercles pleins mentionnés dans cette conversation est la présentation par défaut des listes de suivi depuis au moins 4 ans. Concernant les triangles, il s'agit de la vue compacte, accessible depuis les préférences.

Beaucoup d'utilisateurs expérimentés ont modifié l'affichage de leur liste de suivi pour qu'il corresponde à leurs besoins. Sans doute est-ce là qu'il faut regarder si un gadget local n'a pas changé quelque chose, ou voir si un souci de configuration a remis à zéro les préférences de chacun.

La tâche Phabricator est une proposition, rien n'a été fait pour appliquer cela.

KHarlan (WMF) (talkcontribs)

What is the change exactly? Sorry, having a hard time reconciling the translated text with what I see in the phabricator link, which seems like a different issue...

151.42.132.94 (talkcontribs)

@Trizek (WMF) @KHarlan (WMF) Merci pour les responses. Oui, les points étaient déjà là, mais le visuel (layout) a beaucoup changé: maintentant les points flottent dans l'espace blanc, ils sont bien trop en evidence, à qui dois-je le signaler ? Les dates sont apparues en plus. Je n'avais pas modifié des gadgets ou activé la "vue compacte" le Spécial:Préférences#mw-prefsection-rc, j'aimerai savoir pourquoi la "vue compacte" a été activée ou si elle s'est activée tout seul par erreur. Cordialement,

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Pourriez-vous m'envoyer une capture d'écran par email (ou tout autre moyen) ? Ainsi, nous pourrons comparer les interfaces.

151.42.159.1 (talkcontribs)

@Trizek (WMF) Capture d'écrans envoyées aujourd'hui par courriel. Cordialement,

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Bonjour et merci pour ces captures d'écran.

Tout semble fonctionner normalement, tant pour les points pleins et vides que pour les triangles ou l’espace blanc : c'est la présentation par défaut.

Entre temps, j'ai regardé si le problème avait été rapporté ailleurs, et je n'ai pas trouvé de rapport. Honnêtement, je n'ai pas d'idée. Par expérience, je pencherai pour un gadget ou script local qui a du dysfonctionner ou être réparé, amenant à ce conflit. Pour ma part, je n'ai pas eu le problème sur mon compte bénévole.

Reply to "Discussion"

{{#mentor}} load in Hello templates

3
Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Hello! We want to think and make it so that when arranging greeting templates, {{#mentor}} is inserted without substitution. How critical will the server load be if this word is used on hundreds of thousands of pages?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello!

Not much, otherwise we wouldn't have provided it. :)

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Thanks! :)

Reply to "{{#mentor}} load in Hello templates"
Iniquity (talkcontribs)

I want to express my gratitude to you for your responsiveness, working with communities (you listen to us and hear us) and creating cool tools for beginners and mentors (setting up an extension through json and a special page is just gorgeous).

Keep up the good work :) I really like Growth team.

Special thanks to @Trizek (WMF) and @Martin Urbanec (WMF), you are cool!

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Well Iniquity, thank YOU for being so supportive, for being the good and bad news bearer for both Growth and Russian Wikipedia, and for being a great person. It is really a pleasure to work with you, and our common project grows (pun intended) because of all the great you put in it. Keep going! 😊

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Thanks for the kind words 😍

Reply to "Thank you so much :)"

Growth team product KPIs

7
Summary by Martin Urbanec (WMF)

Currently, newcomers can ask questions in three different ways:

  • To their mentor, via Special:Homepage: this is measured under "Question posted via mentorship_module_question"
  • To their mentor, via the Help panel: this is measured under "Question posted via mentorship_panel_question"
  • To the help desk, via the Help panel: this is measured under "Question posted via help_panel_question"

Description in the KPI dashboard were updated to be more precise.

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

@Martin Urbanec (WMF), hi, what difference between "Question posted via help_panel_question" and "Question posted via mentorship_panel_question"? :)

Martin Urbanec (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi @Iniquity,

the difference is in the origin and target of the questions. There should be an explanation text under the (i) icon in top-left corner of each chart, but that can be improved if it's not sufficient.

Currently, newcomers can ask questions in three different ways:

  • To their mentor, via Special:Homepage: this is measured under "Question posted via mentorship_module_question"
  • To their mentor, via the Help panel: this is measured under "Question posted via mentorship_panel_question"
  • To the help desk, via the Help panel: this is measured under "Question posted via help_panel_question"

The last way (asking questions to the help desk) is currently kept as a fallback, in case the Help desk is configured, but mentorship isn't.

Hope this helps!

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Thanks for the answer! Yes, it helped :)

> There should be an explanation text under the (i) icon in top-left corner of each chart
Oh, I didnt see this button.

> that can be improved if it's not sufficient
I looked, there is a very complex text, it seems to me that there is not enough human description, as you wrote to me here :)

Martin Urbanec (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Great to hear that!

Unfortunately, I can't make the (i) button more visible, as it's put there by Grafana itself (the software that renders the charts).

We can definitely improve the description wording though. I changed the text in the dashboard to use the phrasing I used here. Is it more understandable now?

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

> help_panel: question posted via the help panel, mentorship is not enabled mentorship_module: question posted via mentorship module on Special:Homepage mentorship_panel: Questioned posted via help panel with mentorship enabled

I have this description, and I think you can add "To the help desk, via the Help panel:" phrase :)

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Oh, cache! I was changed. Now thats perfect, thanks! :)

Martin Urbanec (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Great!

Anomalous reassignment of mentors

6
Summary by Martin Urbanec (WMF)
Iniquity (talkcontribs)

@Trizek (WMF), @Martin Urbanec (WMF).

Hi, I need your help. What happened here? https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F:%D0%96%D1%83%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8B?type=growthexperiments&user=%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%BD+%D0%98%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%8F&page=&wpdate=&tagfilter=&subtype=&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist

History: we kick one person from mentorship by admin and then he came back and leave by himself. When he got out he started reassigning mentors to everyone twice.

Iniquity (talkcontribs)
Iniquity (talkcontribs)
Iniquity (talkcontribs)

And it is possible that there is no double-click check when exiting mentoring.

Martin Urbanec (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thanks for the report Iniquity, as always! This is an interesting case.

> And it is possible that there is no double-click check when exiting mentoring.

At a first sight, that seems like a plausible explanation. I filled T322374 to further investigate this.

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Thanks!

Reply to "Anomalous reassignment of mentors"

Prohibited from becoming a mentor. How to?

4
Summary by Trizek (WMF)
Iniquity (talkcontribs)

There is a problem. I have a partially blocked mentor who I want to exclude from mentoring/change his status to away and make sure he can't come back. There is a possibility?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

First of all, you should exclude them from mentorship. While being away, this mentor can still have their name displayed at some newcomers. Excluding this mentor, using Special:ManageMentors, will reassign their mentees.

But this mentor can still reapply. Hence, I filled T322047 to provide an option to exclude users from mentorship.

Side note: if the user is excluded from mentorship because they are toxic, the best solution is to exclude them from the wiki. These users may "do useful things", but they also prevent more users who'd do useful things to join. :)

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Thanks! He's not toxic, he's just quite young and has a very strange way of communicating, which in my opinion can be very bad for newcomers: they get very bad answers. In addition to blocking NS Wikipedia, it is contraindicated to be a mentor :)

Martin Urbanec (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Technical note: As of today, only sitewide blocks affect mentorship features (by fully excluding them from mentorship). I described several solutions how we can extend the partial blocks to mentorship features at T322047#8359548, thoughts are welcomed.

Reply to "Prohibited from becoming a mentor. How to?"

List of all real unstructured mentors

6
Summary by Martin Urbanec (WMF)

Growth team releases data about mentor/mentee relationships via Wikimedia Dumps, as well as via the API (example request).

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

After updating the list to structural, I'm sure there are many mentees who are still attached to mentors who have not passed the QuitMentorship procedure.

There is a possibility to get this list for ruwiki? I want to think about what to do with them.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@Martin Urbanec (WMF), any idea?

We should look at other wikis, as well, and reassign mentees to mentors who aren't in any list anymore.

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

I thought of writing a task later to remove mentees from those who are completely inactive (like this phab:T321884). And ask those who are active, but no longer a mentor, re-enter mentoring and exit it or establish a status to 'away'.

Martin Urbanec (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello @Iniquity, thanks for the question!

Fortunately, it is possible to create this list quite easily, because the Growth team decided in late 2021 to publish all mentorship data via dumps.wikimedia.org. Each Saturday, mentorship data are released at https://dumps.wikimedia.org/other/growthmentorship/. It is then possible for anyone interested to download the data and to build on top of them.

It is also possible to query the mentorship data via the API. For example, if I want to see all mentees assigned to you at Russian Wikipedia, I can do this: https://ru.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&format=xml&list=growthmentormentee&gemmmentor=Iniquity.

To create a list of users with at least one mentee, regardless of whether they are currently signed as mentors, the dumps are more convenient, as they provide access to the complete data.

To make it easier for you, I created an example PAWS notebook which generates this list.

You can find the list at the end of the notebook's page, together with the code I used to generate the list.

Let me know if the list is useful to you, or if you have any questions about how to make use of the mentorship data -- I'll be happy to help!

Best wishes, Martin Urbanec

Iniquity (talkcontribs)

It's gorgeous. Thank you so much for all the links, they are very helpful!

Martin Urbanec (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Glad to be of service!

API for getting a list of mentors with all the data

1
Iniquity (talkcontribs)

Hi, we use the list of mentors to form the pattern when the participant does not have a tutor (very old accounts). Now, to get the mentor's nickname, you need to make two requests: one for the GrowthMentors.json and the other for MediaWiki API.

Is it possible to get a list through the api that contains the names and other data about the mentor?

fyi @Trizek (WMF), @Martin Urbanec (WMF)

Reply to "API for getting a list of mentors with all the data"
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