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Patafisik (talkcontribs)

Hi, I wish you happy holidays and a happy new year, may it be full of beautiful wiki things!

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Grazie, @Patafisik! (I'm replying late because I'm just back from the holidays.) Felice anno nuovo, and see you around!

Reply to "Buone feste"

jawv and Vector2022 14 Nov update

Omotecho (talkcontribs)

@SGrabarczuk (WMF): just a gentle nudge. A weak objection is present at Water hole on Wikivoyage/ja.

Have a look at under the section title: "The Vector 2022 skin as the default in three weeks?(情報周知)". The poster is the admin. Cheers,

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you so much for letting me know! Today, I'll have a look at more Japanese sister project discussion pages.

Reply to "jawv and Vector2022 14 Nov update"
Omotecho (talkcontribs)

In regards to your ping: first thing first, and is there any clever way to localize those images which should be instructive or intuitive to grasp what you are talking about? I have always wondered how we could hook up users’ interest to tech subject, and, aha, images! Sadly, our best educational asset to be, the images stands out in the translated page: they are foreign, not only conveying new ideas, but alienated as they are presented in non-local language. Mind you, visual aspects catches your attraction faster and, it lingers in your mind if you are shared the delicious idea or also alienated. We need to change how we present new ideas, esp if we are eager to gain feedback from those reading our pleas.

Katakana transcription is a trap that will alienate the readers, as well. We would be better off by treating each other as peers on the same planet, not like green monsters extraterrestrial, don’t we? (;

Now. Allow me and I have added plain language explanation to the term typography at the end of the paragraph.

Omotecho (talkcontribs)

Oops, and as translation goes with the original writer, we are not supporting the idea to add (NB: bla bla) kind of addendum.

Kindly add short phrases to techy terms, depending on how far we wish to reach out: only admins who need no such pampering, or -500 edit count fresh minds without much superstitious wisdom they have gained or been forced to swallow. Cheers,

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello, thanks for the messages! I'd like to address everything, but since I'm unsure about some of your points, I'm going to ask you a few questions instead. So:

Yes, I can upload the Japanese version of the prototype, that's a very good idea! I need to have the translations ready first, though.

Thank you for your plain language tweaks!

I'm not sure what you mean in the part about the Katakana transcription, and in the second message about not supporting addenda.

Where do you think I should add short phrases to techy terms?

This message is made for the village pumps and all Wikipedians, and the banner will be shown to all logged-in users, regardless of the experience in the wiki world.

Omotecho (talkcontribs)

I'd better start as: I am among them who expands wikis to 130% on FireFox. So thrilled that dark mode as well as typography could be adjusted to each users' preference and needs, yey. (;

I have this web page in mind translating the test notice. Sorry you need a translation tool to help you, and do you think that in general it conveys what this testing covers?

For the second part or addendum: we translators are not advised to add parentheses and translators' note as I did at Community_prototype_testing/ja: タイポグラフィ(字組み). But as far as jawp has an article about it, users will be confined to what jawp tells them, a small picture. IMHO your team is targeting more advanced state than that, am I right?

So, the addendum needs to explain at least those three points we show users in the image. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Accessibility_for_reading_prototype_1_widget.png

png and en-ja translation.

  • Font size: 文字の大きさ
  • Line height(†): 行と行の間隔
  • Paragraph spacing(‡): 段落と段落の間隔

Like line height(†). It is a bit tricky to those who are not familiar with paper publication, or a web native seldom needs to think about it, like writing on wikis including Diff, WordPress or posting on x or any such. Even those who grew up on Win98 are not expecting line height to webpages, while they know how to handle it on Windows Word/Google Doc.

Paragraph spacing (‡): I am curious to know what users will react to. I guess if we don't allow adjusting line height, and allow paragraph spacing, users will get used to it as on Google Doc. As I've come from paper printing media, this is nonsense basically, if you allow users to adjust line height. Ja language uses on non-wiki sites simply divide paragraphs by adding extra margin to the first line in the new paragraph, or indent the first line a width of a Chinese character. That is much easier to scan a page, as that dent catches your eyes.

Technically, I sometimes find newbies are hen-pecked to write in that style of paper media indents-paragraphs. While elementary school education has been supplying PCs and notepads to classrooms after 2015, and to schoolkids (not 1-1 ratio yet) after COVID-19 outbreak in Japan. So are we going to include digital natives as our main editors/contributors, and starting when?

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Oh, okay, thank you for clarifying all that.

Fist of all, perhaps translators aren't encouraged to be creative, but I wanted to emphasize that I always welcome any tweaks, addenda, anything you think will sound better, clearer, etc. for Japanese speakers. I trust you! In particular, this applies to translations of messages that are to be sent to wikis, like this one, but it's also fine if you improve pages like this one.

Regarding the website about the automated kerning, tackling this is not part of our basic plan, but we may end up working on it after a discussion with your community.

I'll share the link to this conversation with our designer, Justin - your last three paragraphs may be interesting for him!

Reply to "Dark mode experiment"

Can't get rid of Wikimedia reading tool

Jc3s5h (talkcontribs)
Reply to "Can't get rid of Wikimedia reading tool"


Krol111 (talkcontribs)
SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Cześć! Przepraszam, że nie odpowiedziałem wcześniej. To pytanie jest proste, ale odpowiedź chyba nie jest :D Jak sobie z tym poradziłeś? Pytam, ponieważ widzę, jak dodać artykuł do istniejącego już elementu Wikidanych, ale nie jestem pewien, jak to zrobić w przypadku nowego elementu Wikidanych. To jest technicznie poza samą skórką, stąd nie wiem, czy tu nie było jakichś zmian.

Krol111 (talkcontribs)

Cześć! Dzięki za odpowiedź, nie ma problemu, nie śpieszy się. Problem rozwiązałem dodając [[en: ... ]] na końcu artykułu. Następnego dnia EmausBot przerobił to na poprawne łączenie wikidata: https://szl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aktywacyjno_funkcyjo&diff=prev&oldid=366471. Najszybsze rozwiązanie chyba obecnie, aczkolwiek niezbyt ładne.

Problemem jest właśnie jak dodać artykuł do istniejącego już elementu Wikidanych. Na polskiej Wikipedii np. tu: https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Szyma%C5%84ski_(muzyk) jest przycisk "Edytuj linki pomiędzy wersjami językowymi". Na śląskiej np. tu: https://szl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niklaus_Pieron takiego przycisku nie ma :/ wiadomo z czego to wynika?

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Na śląskiej w biogramie Niklausa (oglądałem trochę, szanuję) jest "Dodaj linki wersji językowych". W wyróżnionym dziś artykule o piramidzie w Gizie jest w tym miejscu "Edytuj metajynzykowe linki".

Swoją drogą, można to przetłumaczyć na śląski, edytując MediaWiki:Wikibase-addlinkstitle/szl na Translatewiki.

Krol111 (talkcontribs)

O jaa, dobra, teraz znalazłem :D Wcześniej szukałem przy przycisku Dodaj języki/Przidej godki obok nazwy artykułu, tam jest taka sytuacja jak opisałem. To problem rozwiązany, dziękuję za pomoc!

Reply to "Re:Wikipedyjo:Sztamtisz/Uogůlne/Downe#The_Vector_2022_skin_as_the_default_in_two_weeks?"
Hold your horses (talkcontribs)

Hey, it's Alex H. I had to reset my phone and even though I had you in WhatsApp somehow you're not there anymore. Can you send me a WhatsApp message when you have a chance? (I will make sure to save you into my contacts this time).

Reply to "👋"

Enable Vector 2022 on cywiki please

Llywelyn2000 (talkcontribs)
Reply to "Enable Vector 2022 on cywiki please"

A setting to hide fixed/sticky headers

MrMobodies (talkcontribs)

With the new design please be aware that not everybody wants things stuck to the page or over the contents. I find that very distracting and annoying. I class it as spammy behaviour when they are in the way and can't be closed. I find i can't concentrate on the article. I would like to see an option to hide it like a slider, Google maps have one for the side pane. DuckDucko has a setting and Archive.org has a close button which gives me a choice. I have to rely browser extensions to hide/show these things and they don't always restore properly.

Will there be a setting?

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Overall, we:

  1. Are aware that in such a diverse and tech-savvy group as Wikipedians, there will always be people who dislike a particular feature
  2. Will build this in MediaWiki which is highly customizable/adjustable anyway. One "only" needs to know how to adjust something. How to change CSS, or to write a user script, etc.

So I suspect the question isn't really "whether this would be possible" but "how easy this would be for individual users". I'll ask my colleagues.

MrMobodies (talkcontribs)

Well I see the new design, appreciate the left slider can be hidden and other stuff and I don't see any fixed headers yet. I appreciate that.

Thank you.

When I see large headers stuck on the top of the page that I find I don't need and don't want them, can't hide whenI am trying to scroll away from them they make me loose my temper and this from the start in 2015 before I used element hiders to hide them and a Bookmark killer before that i manually removed them from developer tools. I am now at the liberty of browser extensions Firefox "Stickyducky" and Chrome, "Sticky Header Hider aka Fixed Header Fixer" Chrome auto hide stuff on scroll and I shouldn't to depend on those.

Hypothetically: If you went into a shop on the high street and everytime you go in there you have something stuck in a fixed part of your vision, with the store's logo, and toolbar in the way and distracting and no matter where you look you can't get rid of it until you leave. Now how would you feel? Wouldn't that put you off?

I like my freedom to scroll the page, whether everything scrolls inline, it makes it to me spacious and this what got my into browsing and doing many things and research back many decades.

Archive.org has a header that can be hidden and Duckduckgo too as i have choice like before the change to adjust it.


I find the fixed headers (uncloseable) or things stuck there a violation over my viewing area. I take great offence the same as when I use to remove malware decades ago for customers, like the excessive browser toolbars, that use to reinstall through hidden processes (free games) that customers couldn't see, and injected stuff over webpages with things that interfered whether they'd be watching some on youtube, which included dimming overlays (lightboxes) advertising or scaring them into some unknown anti virus program and through a fake looking mozilla yellow bar on Firefox back in the day.

I read a lot of people in the comments on the development page and the EEVBLOG board that they are unhappy with the the white spaces so on that they saw recently, but I don't care about those, only that my viewing area is left alone on scroll and things are not stuck in the way.

It's a bit like Channel logos, in the UK we have like hundreds of freeview channels and some BBC too but I don't watch any of them for that reason as I'd notice them more than the anything else and can't pay attention due to the distraction of seeing it there all the time constantly over the picture.

Thanks again for listening.

Reply to "A setting to hide fixed/sticky headers"
Geraki (talkcontribs)
SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you, that was an excellent idea! The checkbox is there because that’s a screenshot of the global preferences. I can add the “global preferences” words as the description to that screenshot. I’d use {{int:}} so you wouldn’t need to translate that manually. What do you think?

Reply to "About a screenshot"

Update on Vector 2022

2A01:C23:5C45:4200:5D85:8BB7:1EB0:AA66 (talkcontribs)

Dear Mr. SGrabarczuk!

I'm from the diq.wikipedia. After your change, the language links appear at the top of the page. The old position would actually have been better. Because the connection to the page list on Wikidata is now missing at the end. Kind regards! -- ~~~~

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello! Thank you for writing to me. The Wikidata link (Unsurê Wikidata) is now in the Haceti section of the sidebar. What do you think of this solution? Greetings.

Mirzali (talkcontribs)

Thank you for your reply. I have now selected the old version. Because I can usually deal with it better. Kind regards!

Reply to "Update on Vector 2022"