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HirnSpuk (talkcontribs)

Feedback for the discussion tomorrow:

  • The TOC-Templates on de:wb seem to be useless right now. I wasn't able to quickly see where the problem is, because here on mw they seem to work. This is bad because a lot of community-pages (at least on de:wb) rely on the TOC. And a lot of pages rely on a floating TOC (right).
  • Also the TOC is now "hidden" beneath the side-menu, which is open by default and the UI doesn't hint how to collapse it easily. This is highly distracting because the toc is hence not visible by default without scrolling and what should have been better seems to be actually worse now.
  • Even worse: when the page is narrowed down, the TOC seems to disappear completely.

Actually, that is the first change, I think I might not get used to and which makes my work harder. I suppose, this function should be deployed with the complete rework of the UI at the earliest. When the sidemenu has a different style (e. g. collapse the sections "Support", "Development", "Mediawiki.org", "Tools", "Export" by default) it would probably be less of a problem. Best regards, HirnSpuk

Reply to "New TOC 2"
Aschmidt (talkcontribs)

I just would like to give you feedback on the new TOC in the improved desktop skin. Unfortunately the TOC now is so wide it leaves rather little space for the main text area. I'd prefer a TOC that I can open and close from the fixed top bar, as I can do with the sidebar menu. Could you please think again about the new design and usability? Thanks!

Reply to "New TOC"
DCDuring (talkcontribs)

What was reverted in this diff does not seem to me to be a personal attack, but it was reverted on those grounds. Please explain. DCDuring (talk) 03:43, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

On MediaWiki.org, there's Code of Conduct in force. The words "despise and abhor all of you" are not collaborative or respectful, and are a personal attack, I think.

I see you've read the thread titled Message from the Code of Conduct Committee. The Committee wrote about the comment: "it personally attacks others (namely, members of the Web team)".

You seem to be disagreeing with the Committee, too. I'd suggest to continue the discussion with them. I think this would be both in line with the procedures of this wiki and most effective for you to get this situation clarified.

DCDuring (talkcontribs)

I don't see it that way. It is a statement of feeling. I thought statements of feelings are good in general, even when the feelings are negative. You might consider carefully avoiding overuse of the CoC to suppress expression of strongly felt opposition. If you were to take a managerial perspective, the strong expression of negative feelings is valuable information. Censoring (reverting etc.) merely inflames feelings. If this is how CoC is to be administered, I will oppose it and subvert it whenever possible. DCDuring (talk) 13:47, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you for sharing your perspective. I'm of the opinion that the best recipient who should be at least informed about your comment is @TechConductCommittee.

DCDuring (talkcontribs)

I've thought more about this and would focus my comments to say that expressing hatred of a working group in an organization is probably not a personal attack. It may be an expression of hatred toward, for example, an oppressive power-holding group and how it habitually functions from behind barriers that make it unresponsive. Every time CoC is used as a cudgel this way, its legitimacy is undermined. It's not up to CoC to address this kind of concern as much as it is up to those who abuse CoC to correct their behavior. DCDuring (talk) 17:46, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Reply to "I don't understand"

/Desktop_improvements#March2022 and more (transation)

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Omotecho (talkcontribs)

Hi, could you push sections for translation please? I wish we would inform updates for March 2022: pls see Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements/ja#2022年3月:TOC and thereafter in that page. That is a very inspiring writing, and a doorway to support the conversation/feedback giving/receiving on the subject. Thank you always for taking care of the internationalization, cheers, --

Floyd23 (talkcontribs)

Of course! Thank you for the opportunity to contribute. This is a very exciting project indeed. Do call on me anytime! Cheers, ~~~~

Omotecho (talkcontribs)

Hi,@Floyd23, would you mind to check if translation tag T:195 and beyond put through for translation please? I am not able to see why those updates for Marh 2022 is available for translation yet. Am I missing something, or I see on te edit_history that Szimon has already assigned them for translation on 31 March, 2022. Cheers,

Floyd23 (talkcontribs)

Apologies and a favor: please don't yet assume that I know how to quickly locate "T:195 and beyond" and other such bits. Need just a bit more guidance as to where the content requiring translation lives w/direct links and/or instructions. I will catch on quickly... Much appreciated.

Reply to "/Desktop_improvements#March2022 and more (transation)"
HirnSpuk (talkcontribs)

Hi, please regard to my discussion-page and supply me with a deadline. I started, but I'm not sure, when I'm able to finish. I would have right now, but I don't understand "We have also flipped the order of the page title bar and page toolbar/tab-bar". What is the "page title bar", the "page toolbar" and the "tab-bar"? I wasn't able to locate objects, that where flipped and could be meant by this description. Best regards, HirnSpuk

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello! I've just added one question to the form. Would you be able to finish within the next 3-4 days?

"We have also flipped the order of the page title bar and page toolbar/tab-bar" - in Legacy Vector, page title is below "Read", "Edit", etc. In the prototype, it's above. This is what this sentence means.

HirnSpuk (talkcontribs)

Yes. Done. Best regards, HirnSpuk

Reply to "Translation Request"

Please complete trans target: 29 March meeting for Desktop improvements

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Summary by Omotecho

There is a reusable template, see Template:Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements/Office hours announcement. Another template for updating variables are under construction.

Omotecho (talkcontribs)
SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Omotecho (talkcontribs)

Yey, @SGrabarczuk (WMF), you are a true explorer turning unmapped part into coding for translation tasks. Yes, I've dreamt about such template be invented, as such we word_processor age people are used to; those fixed body texts requiring small patch ups be reused with updated "variables".

That's distinguishing those translation tasks requiring human brain to its entirety IMHO, and you are opening doors for more translators to join the force, by grading tasks from easy to complicated. (:

Thank you a bunch, I'll work on the Office_hours_announcement under Reading/Web/Destop_improvements/ you kindly pointed me to. Cheers,

How we will see unregistered users

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MediaWiki message delivery (talkcontribs)

Hi!

You get this message because you are an admin on a Wikimedia wiki.

When someone edits a Wikimedia wiki without being logged in today, we show their IP address. As you may already know, we will not be able to do this in the future. This is a decision by the Wikimedia Foundation Legal department, because norms and regulations for privacy online have changed.

Instead of the IP we will show a masked identity. You as an admin will still be able to access the IP. There will also be a new user right for those who need to see the full IPs of unregistered users to fight vandalism, harassment and spam without being admins. Patrollers will also see part of the IP even without this user right. We are also working on better tools to help.

If you have not seen it before, you can read more on Meta. If you want to make sure you don’t miss technical changes on the Wikimedia wikis, you can subscribe to the weekly technical newsletter.

We have two suggested ways this identity could work. We would appreciate your feedback on which way you think would work best for you and your wiki, now and in the future. You can let us know on the talk page. You can write in your language. The suggestions were posted in October and we will decide after 17 January.

Thank you. /Johan (WMF)

18:17, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Reply to "How we will see unregistered users"
Sunpriat (talkcontribs)

Special:Diff/4973814 Will there be an opportunity in other wikis (which are not A/B/early adopter) to try this by adding something like ?usesticky=1 to the url?

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Oh sure! In January, the pilot (early adopter) wikis will get the sticky header as default, and at the same time, everyone who as opted in individually will also see the header. So if you have the Improvements working everywhere because you've used your global preferences, you will see it everywhere as if all wikis were pilots!

Summary by DDPAT 2.0

The Ukrainian page has been completely translated

DDPAT 2.0 (talkcontribs)

Do you really know so many languages, or do you play Google Translate?

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Neither. I reuse the identical translations from the previous prototype testing. Thanks for asking :) BTW, would it be possible for you to finish the Ukrainian and Russian translations?

DDPAT 2.0 (talkcontribs)

I'm not sure about Russian, because I have some stylistic problems with it, but of course I'll finish Ukrainian.

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Great! Thank you.

A setting to hide fixed/sticky headers

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MrMobodies (talkcontribs)

With the new design please be aware that not everybody wants things stuck to the page or over the contents. I find that very distracting and annoying. I class it as spammy behaviour when they are in the way and can't be closed. I find i can't concentrate on the article. I would like to see an option to hide it like a slider, Google maps have one for the side pane. DuckDucko has a setting and Archive.org has a close button which gives me a choice. I have to rely browser extensions to hide/show these things and they don't always restore properly.


Will there be a setting?

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Overall, we:

  1. Are aware that in such a diverse and tech-savvy group as Wikipedians, there will always be people who dislike a particular feature
  2. Will build this in MediaWiki which is highly customizable/adjustable anyway. One "only" needs to know how to adjust something. How to change CSS, or to write a user script, etc.

So I suspect the question isn't really "whether this would be possible" but "how easy this would be for individual users". I'll ask my colleagues.

Reply to "A setting to hide fixed/sticky headers"