About this board

Geraki (talkcontribs)
SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you, that was an excellent idea! The checkbox is there because that’s a screenshot of the global preferences. I can add the “global preferences” words as the description to that screenshot. I’d use {{int:}} so you wouldn’t need to translate that manually. What do you think?

Reply to "About a screenshot"
2A01:C23:5C45:4200:5D85:8BB7:1EB0:AA66 (talkcontribs)

Dear Mr. SGrabarczuk!

I'm from the diq.wikipedia. After your change, the language links appear at the top of the page. The old position would actually have been better. Because the connection to the page list on Wikidata is now missing at the end. Kind regards! -- ~~~~

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello! Thank you for writing to me. The Wikidata link (Unsurê Wikidata) is now in the Haceti section of the sidebar. What do you think of this solution? Greetings.

Mirzali (talkcontribs)

Thank you for your reply. I have now selected the old version. Because I can usually deal with it better. Kind regards!

Reply to "Update on Vector 2022"
Tumbuka Arch (talkcontribs)

Greetings @SGrabarczuk (WMF)

Soon after the new skin Vector 2022 was applied on our wiki a week ago, all templates pages are showing an error "TemplateStyles' src attribute must not be empty."

Before the Vector 2022 skin was applied, all was as usual - smooth and normal, no errors.

Can you help us?

Thank you.

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello @Tumbuka Arch. Apologies for the late reply. Thanks for letting me know about this problem. Could you share a link to a page where you see this? I'd like to find out if it's related to Vector 2022, or is it a coincidence. We'll try to help. Thank you!


How to customize logo text in testing phase?

MarcoSwart (talkcontribs)

Hi SGrabarczuk,

While using the new skin on Dutch Wiktionary (nl.wiktionary.org) I noticed it changes the name of the project from WikiWoordenboek into Wiktionary. The perceived domination of English is for some a recurring source of criticism on WMF initiatives. I expect the acceptance of a new skin will benefit from showing the correct text as early as possible. As the French Wiktionary is showing Wiktionnaire I suppose this can be done, but I don't know how.

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello. I understand you, I'm not an English native speaker myself. In this case, it's only because the team hasn't made all the logos for all wikis yet. We will definitely do that before we change the default skin on more wikis.

MarcoSwart (talkcontribs)

Thanks for the reply. I guessed this would be solved before making it the default skin. But I would like to generate some enthusiasm for that change and having the correct name show up would be helpful in this stage already. Could we speed things up if I created the adapted logo text myself?

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

If you think it's possible, we can even make the skin default sooner, and then we'd provide the logo. If you only prefer to make the logo, here's the instruction. It requires some purely technical things I'm not an expert at, so if you have any questions, you'll need to wait until I get answers from my team mates.

MarcoSwart (talkcontribs)

Your message in our Village Pump did not say anything about using the correct logo. Changing the name of a project as part of a new skin is clearly unacceptable. When our present logo was designed, the available width put a real constraint on the legibility, and some time was needed to find the optimal solution.

So I strongly suggest you add an adapted logo to the test version before deploying it. If you want to stick to Oct. 3rd for deployment, it would be reasonable for you to show the adapted logo on Sept. 27th and provide for the possibility to make improvements in the period before deployment. If this proves too difficult, I suggest you state the date on which the new logo will be part of the test version and allow for 4 weeks time to react before deploying.

Although I do expect some long-time users preferring the old skin, after using the new skin for 3 months myself I'm quite happy with the improvements. So I hope my first suggestion will be feasible. This is also the reason for this message instead of asking for a later deployment right away.

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi. Thanks for the message. I'm sorry that in the message, I didn't include information on the logo. You are absolutely right. Of course we will create it before making the change. I've been told that a few of my colleagues would sit down together and have a few-hour session of creating all the logos needed.

Apart from that, I'm happy that you appreciate the new skin. I'll let my team know about your suggestion.

MarcoSwart (talkcontribs)

Is there somewhere we can see what the WikiWoordenboek logo is going to look like yet? Or is it safer to request more time to discuss the change? We are in no hurry to change the default skin.

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I suspect the logos aren't public yet. Also, since other things are moving, we have more flexibility than we thought. Today, our team decided that next week, we wouldn't make the change for the largest wikis among those which received the message. Dutch Wiktionary is among these wikis. So - we have time! :)

MarcoSwart (talkcontribs)

That's great! Is it okay if I mention this extension in our De kroeg (Village Pump) or are you planning a general notification to the wikis concerned?

I just got an email from the Dutch Wikimedia chapter (I'm also moderator of nl.wikimedia.org). They have a similar request as WikiWoordenboek: to view the new version of the logo before the skin becomes the default one. Even though this is a really small wiki, would it be possible to add them to the list of wikis that will be changed later on? I have given them an explanation why I think the new skin is an improvement, and I don't think they have any other objections. If it's better to use the button in your message, I can of course do so.

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

It's fine, we can have the discussion here. Thank you for being our advocate here! I'll let the team know and get back to you.

Reply to "How to customize logo text in testing phase?"

New skin on Western Frisian Wikipedia

Ieneach fan 'e Esk (talkcontribs)

Hello, SGrabarczuk.

Recently you posted a message on the general discussion page (fy:) of the Western Frisian Wikipedia (fywiki) about the new Vector 2022 skin becoming the default there in the week of October 3rd. I pinged you last Saturday to ask a question about that, but I'm starting to think you didn't get the message. So I'll ask again here.

I tried the new skin out and I'm not a fan. I see some advantages but a lot more disadvantages. So here's my question: you say we can get more time to discuss the changes, but is there an actual choice here between "Yes, let's do it" en "No, this is not for us so we're going to opt out and keep the old skin on our Wikipedia"? Because if we can't refuse the new skin, then there really is no sense in discussing things, is there? ~~~~

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello! Thanks for writing to me here. Indeed, somehow, I didn't get the ping, so your message here helped. I'll answer on fywiki and we'll have the discussion there, ok?

Reply to "New skin on Western Frisian Wikipedia"

日本語版のデフォールトのスキンをVectort (2010)に戻してください Revert the Japanese default skin to Vectort (2010)

匿竜類 (talkcontribs)

:ja:利用者:SGrabarczuk (WMF)の案内に従って:ja:利用者‐会話:SGrabarczuk (WMF)に要望を書きましたが、どうも読んでおられないようなのでこちらに書きます。あなたは:ja:Wikipedia:井戸端 をお読みでしょうか。Vecor (2022)については表示の問題が発生していてIPユーザーから苦情が寄せられています。あなたはこの問題はVector (2022)の技術的問題ではなく他の個所の問題だとお考えなのかもしれませんが、開発者チームの中の役割分担がどのようになっているかは、一般の利用者には関係ありません。あなたの権限でとりあえずデフォールトのスキンを元のVector (2010)に戻すことはできるはずなので戻してください。その権限がないのなら、何らかの改善提案を:ja:Wikipedia:井戸端 にお書きください。なお、その際はGOOGLE翻訳による日本語訳をお付けください。DEEPLは権利問題が発生するので使わないでください。-: ja: User: Follow the guidance of SGrabarczuk (WMF): ja: User-Conversation: I wrote a request to SGrabarczuk (WMF), but I can't seem to read it, so I will write it here. Have you read: ja: Wikipedia: Well Edge? IP users have complained about Vecor (2022) due to display issues. You might think that this issue isn't a technical issue in Vector (2022), but something else, but what the division of roles within the developer team is is for general use. It doesn't matter who you are. You should be able to revert the default skin to the original Vector (2010) for the time being with your privileges, so please do so. If you don't have that authority, please write any suggestions for improvement at: ja: Wikipedia: Idobata. In that case, please attach a Japanese translation by GOOGLE translation. Do not use DEEPL as it will cause rights issues. --~~~~-~~~~

M I Idrees (talkcontribs)

ihave seen all what you wrote and I appreciate~~~~

Reply to "日本語版のデフォールトのスキンをVectort (2010)に戻してください Revert the Japanese default skin to Vectort (2010)"
HirnSpuk (talkcontribs)

Feedback for the discussion tomorrow:

  • The TOC-Templates on de:wb seem to be useless right now. I wasn't able to quickly see where the problem is, because here on mw they seem to work. This is bad because a lot of community-pages (at least on de:wb) rely on the TOC. And a lot of pages rely on a floating TOC (right).
  • Also the TOC is now "hidden" beneath the side-menu, which is open by default and the UI doesn't hint how to collapse it easily. This is highly distracting because the toc is hence not visible by default without scrolling and what should have been better seems to be actually worse now.
  • Even worse: when the page is narrowed down, the TOC seems to disappear completely.

Actually, that is the first change, I think I might not get used to and which makes my work harder. I suppose, this function should be deployed with the complete rework of the UI at the earliest. When the sidemenu has a different style (e. g. collapse the sections "Support", "Development", "Mediawiki.org", "Tools", "Export" by default) it would probably be less of a problem. Best regards, HirnSpuk

Reply to "New TOC 2"
Aschmidt (talkcontribs)

I just would like to give you feedback on the new TOC in the improved desktop skin. Unfortunately the TOC now is so wide it leaves rather little space for the main text area. I'd prefer a TOC that I can open and close from the fixed top bar, as I can do with the sidebar menu. Could you please think again about the new design and usability? Thanks!

Reply to "New TOC"
DCDuring (talkcontribs)

What was reverted in this diff does not seem to me to be a personal attack, but it was reverted on those grounds. Please explain. DCDuring (talk) 03:43, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

On MediaWiki.org, there's Code of Conduct in force. The words "despise and abhor all of you" are not collaborative or respectful, and are a personal attack, I think.

I see you've read the thread titled Message from the Code of Conduct Committee. The Committee wrote about the comment: "it personally attacks others (namely, members of the Web team)".

You seem to be disagreeing with the Committee, too. I'd suggest to continue the discussion with them. I think this would be both in line with the procedures of this wiki and most effective for you to get this situation clarified.

DCDuring (talkcontribs)

I don't see it that way. It is a statement of feeling. I thought statements of feelings are good in general, even when the feelings are negative. You might consider carefully avoiding overuse of the CoC to suppress expression of strongly felt opposition. If you were to take a managerial perspective, the strong expression of negative feelings is valuable information. Censoring (reverting etc.) merely inflames feelings. If this is how CoC is to be administered, I will oppose it and subvert it whenever possible. DCDuring (talk) 13:47, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you for sharing your perspective. I'm of the opinion that the best recipient who should be at least informed about your comment is @TechConductCommittee.

DCDuring (talkcontribs)

I've thought more about this and would focus my comments to say that expressing hatred of a working group in an organization is probably not a personal attack. It may be an expression of hatred toward, for example, an oppressive power-holding group and how it habitually functions from behind barriers that make it unresponsive. Every time CoC is used as a cudgel this way, its legitimacy is undermined. It's not up to CoC to address this kind of concern as much as it is up to those who abuse CoC to correct their behavior. DCDuring (talk) 17:46, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Reply to "I don't understand"

/Desktop_improvements#March2022 and more (transation)

Omotecho (talkcontribs)

Hi, could you push sections for translation please? I wish we would inform updates for March 2022: pls see Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements/ja#2022年3月:TOC and thereafter in that page. That is a very inspiring writing, and a doorway to support the conversation/feedback giving/receiving on the subject. Thank you always for taking care of the internationalization, cheers, --

Floyd23 (talkcontribs)

Of course! Thank you for the opportunity to contribute. This is a very exciting project indeed. Do call on me anytime! Cheers, ~~~~

Omotecho (talkcontribs)

Hi,@Floyd23, would you mind to check if translation tag T:195 and beyond put through for translation please? I am not able to see why those updates for Marh 2022 is available for translation yet. Am I missing something, or I see on te edit_history that Szimon has already assigned them for translation on 31 March, 2022. Cheers,

Floyd23 (talkcontribs)

Apologies and a favor: please don't yet assume that I know how to quickly locate "T:195 and beyond" and other such bits. Need just a bit more guidance as to where the content requiring translation lives w/direct links and/or instructions. I will catch on quickly... Much appreciated.

Reply to "/Desktop_improvements#March2022 and more (transation)"