Talk:Talk pages project/Usability

Latest comment: 1 month ago by PPelberg (WMF) in topic Transclusion syntax

Feedback: Proposed Revisions to "Add topic" button


There is a prototype ready that we would value feedback on:

The proposed revisions to the "Add topic" button in the Vector (2022) skin.

The prototype introduces two changes for people using the Vector (2022) skin:

  1. The "Add topic" button appears in a more prominent location on the page (above the existing page toolbar that contains actions links like "Page," "Discussion," "Read," "Edit," "Edit source," etc.)
  2. The "Add topic" button is styled differently

Feedback prompts

  • What – if anything – concerns you about this proposed change?
  • What – if any – ambiguity might we be able to address that would make it easier for you to evaluate this change?

PPelberg (WMF) (talk) 00:10, 15 February 2023 (UTC)Reply

Nothing concerns me I'm still just learning and trying to figure this all out because I really need to get beta Angelabm38 (talk) 04:42, 12 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Proposal: Add a config to configure this extension on any page


According to this discussion, I think a configuration should be added to the tool. This is because Wikimedia forums are held in the project namespace, and forums are therefore deprived of these benefits. খাত্তাব হাসান (talk) 09:47, 11 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

It’s actually already implemented: usability improvements work on all non-talk pages that have __NEWSECTIONLINK__. However, according to phab:T331635, this mode is currently only enabled on Hungarian and German Wikipedias. I think if you request enabling it as described at m:Requesting wiki configuration changes, the developers will be happy to fulfill your request. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 19:14, 11 July 2023 (UTC)Reply
@Tacsipacsi Thanks a lot! খাত্তাব হাসান (talk) 19:39, 11 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

I'm not sure if this is being addressed in the scope of work, but with the enhancements I hope addressing how talk pages handle the lifecycle is being taken into account. Currently archiving is bot or manually curated, but in the process the sections move and old url links break. Talk pages should be designed to be an archive from the start with a URL structure that allows for a permalink ie no url change for links to a topic. Which means probably moving away from just anchor links to an ID structure that would handle each topic individually to possibly which inserts an incremental ID and the associated topic to any moved topic to a new page would maintain its direct link or something that would allow reconstructing links to anchor linked topics that are moved due to page size. Wolfgang8741 (talk) 12:37, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

We have been actually working on this!, although we looked at the problem from a different angle.
We felt that changing the discussion system as you describe would likely not be accepted by the entire community, and could result in a big failure like the deployment of Flow back in the day. (Although it is possible to do even today, if you convince people who would use those discussions that it's a good idea – as an example, Portuguese Wikipedia's village pump page is set up that way, where each topic is on a separate page like this one: [1].)
Instead, we're trying to track the topics as they're moved to the archive, and we introduced a special page that functions as a permanent link to a topic (or a single comment). For example, Special:GoToComment/c-Wolfgang8741-20230810123700-Proposal:_fix_talk_page_archiving_so_links_don't_break_when_a_topic_is_moved is a permanent link to this thread. Right now it links back to this page, but when it gets archived, it will redirect to the archive. As another example, Special:GoToComment/c-Whatamidoing_(WMF)-2021-02-05T20:13:00.000Z-Test_page is a link to the first thread on this page – I had just set up archiving here, so it should get archived today and then you'll find that the link goes to the archive.
We're still in the process of deploying this feature to all wikis (you can follow the progress at T315510), and deciding how to make it accessible in the interface (at this moment, it's just a "secret" special page). Matma Rex (talk) 19:47, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
For some high-traffic pages, I have wished occasionally for something less extreme than the single discussion/separate page approach used at ptwiki, like w:en:Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents to be split at least by year. That page presently has more than 1.3 million revisions, and gets ~60K edits per year. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:19, 28 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Localising Topic Containers - CLDR ticket created


@Matma Rex, @Tacsipacsi, @Whatamidoing (WMF):

It emerged in our discussion at [[2]] that Topic Containers take data from CLDR, and since there is a mismatch between the language codes for Konkani in MediaWiki and CLDR, the localised text for Konkani is not appearing in Topic Containers. I have created a ticket to correct this in CLDR. I would be grateful if the Wikimedia community could support this ticket in any way. The Discoverer (talk) 08:12, 27 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

@The Discoverer Hi, thank you for doing that! I don't know how to support it, but I think @Amire80 knows more about the CLDR project, so perhaps he can help. From my side as a developer, I can offer adding local overrides for the CLDR data in MediaWiki, so that we can fix the localisation without waiting for them: I've done that before for the Sorani Kurdish language in, and I could prepare a similar patch for Konkani if you point me to where to find the localisation data. Matma Rex (talk) 16:50, 27 September 2023 (UTC)Reply
Actually, I somehow never became much of a CLDR expert. @Raymond, @Nemo bis, and @Nikerabbit understand it much better than I do. Amir E. Aharoni {{🌎🌍🌏}} 18:13, 27 September 2023 (UTC)Reply
@Matma Rex , @Amire80 Please add me as reviewer for a CLDR patch. Raymond (talk) 18:18, 27 September 2023 (UTC)Reply
Tracked in Phabricator: T347626 The Discoverer (talk) 19:32, 28 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

This Phabricator task seems to indicate that Discussion Tools will be enabled whenever the magic word exists on the page. However this community discussion page in the Konkani Wiktionary is missing Topic Containers and Reply / Subscribe links, even though the magic word is present. The Discoverer (talk) 04:34, 23 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Reply and Subscribe links do appear, but only in newer topics (such as Tech News: 2023-24), because DiscussionTools only recognizes the currently used timestamp format (I found two tasks about this, phab:T245789 and phab:T246047, although I’m pretty sure there’s at least one more, on which I’ve commented that this problem is not only about decade-old comments). A few newer topics don’t have Reply and Subscribe links because of the lack of user page links in signatures. (Mass message senders should get educated about the importance of proper signatures.)
Topic Containers do not work in non-talk namespaces on most wikis yet, only on German and Hungarian Wikipedias (phab:T331635); the wider deployment seems to have got stuck. If you get local consensus, I’m sure the developers will be happy to turn it on on Konkani Wiktionary as a third phase 0 wiki. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 15:51, 23 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
Thanks @Tacsipacsi. I will initiate a discussion and create a ticket. Regards, The Discoverer (talk) 04:23, 25 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Transclusion syntax


@PPelberg (WMF) and Slaporte (WMF): It doesn’t work because it’s a translatable page, so when you try to transclude Talk pages project/Usability, you actually transclude Talk pages project/Usability/en (on an English-language page), and that hasn’t been updated yet – a translation administrator needs to press a button for the update to happen. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 22:15, 7 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Tacsipacsi: thank you for looking into this and explaining the issue!
Can you please give the below a quick read and let me know what – if anything – I might be misunderstanding about the issue and what's needed to resolve it?
Because Talk pages project/Usability is a translatable page, the source page you are attempting to transclude from is not Talk pages project/Usability, but rather the page that corresponds to the content langauge you have set. For me in this case, that's, Talk pages project/Usability/en.
A translation admin needs to add <onlyinclude>...</onlyinclude> syntax to Talk pages project/Usability/en rather than Talk pages project/Usability. PPelberg (WMF) (talk) 22:34, 7 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
@PPelberg (WMF): The Fix part is incorrect in that the translation admin doesn’t (manually) add the syntax to the /en subpage, but rather pushes a button that makes the Translate extension copy Talk pages project/Usability minus the translation syntax to the /en subpage – the canonical and the only manually editable page is always the one which has no language suffix. So you did the right thing when you edited this page.
Apart from the above, your summary is correct.
(Also note you don’t need to nudge a translation admin: all translatable pages are listed on Special:PageTranslation, with the ones with pending changes highlighted near the top, so the highlighted section acts like a backlog.) —Tacsipacsi (talk) 23:24, 7 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
the translation admin doesn’t (manually) add the syntax to the /en subpage, but rather pushes a button that makes the Translate extension copy Talk pages project/Usability minus the translation syntax to the /en subpage...right thing when you edited this page.
Ah, okay! Understood. Thank you for clarifying this, @Tacsipacsi.
(Also note you don’t need to nudge a translation admin: all translatable pages are listed on Special:PageTranslation, with the ones with pending changes highlighted near the top, so the highlighted section acts like a backlog.)
This is the first time I can remember visiting Special:PageTranslation...what a helpful view. I'm glad you decided to share this with me.
Well, thank you to you, @Shirayuki, and @User:RAdimer-WMF for all of the wonderful help and support...Talk pages project/Impact#Usability Improvements now looks exactly as I'd intended it to 🙏🏼😊 PPelberg (WMF) (talk) 18:44, 8 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Return to "Talk pages project/Usability" page.