Talk:Talk pages project

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This page is for discussing the Talk pages project. The software interface on this page is Structured Discussions ("Flow"), which is not part of the Talk pages project.

Where can I find a whole list of subscriptions?

6
Summary by Tacsipacsi
MilkyDefer (talkcontribs)

I regularly clear my watchlist. I wish I could do the same to topic subscriptions. I could not find an interface to do that. Is there a page that lists all topics I have subscribed to?

Tacsipacsi (talkcontribs)

Not yet, but I hope there will be within a week or two (it will be called Special:TopicSubscriptions). In the meantime, you can track the development at phab:T273342 or try out it at a demo wiki (you can either register a new account, or log in as the existing user Alice with password patchdemo1). If you have any thoughts about the new special page, make sure to share them so that the developers can take them into account in the final version!

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

One of the open questions is: What do you want on that page? Do you want a "delete everything" button? A way to figure out what's old and what's new? Sort by page name or namespace? By how recently you (or someone) commented?

MilkyDefer (talkcontribs)

Before your question, I just wanted to have it on my Special:Watchlist and Special:EditWatchlist. However, after reading through that phabricator ticket I found the additional functionalities very appealing. Chinese Wikipedia has a bot that maintains a "topic list" on each of the Village Pump's subpages, which is well received. I think having a Special page like that should be handy.

PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Chinese Wikipedia has a bot that maintains a "topic list" on each of the Village Pump's subpages, which is well received

@MilkyDefer the bot you are referring to above sounds interesting...are you able to share a link to it? I'm curious to learn more about what functionality it offers people.

MilkyDefer (talkcontribs)

@PPelberg (WMF): it is User:Cewbot, operated by User:Kanashimi. It maintains a topic list in a separate subpage, which is then transcluded into the main page.

Reply to "Where can I find a whole list of subscriptions?"

Thank beside reply link

6
Summary last edited by PPelberg (WMF) 23:36, 21 October 2021 4 days ago

T259865: Add support for voting-style discussions

T249893: Add "Thanks" to talk page comments

Klein Muçi (talkcontribs)

Can a "thank this user" button be added beside the reply one? I think it would be beneficial. Personally I use that feature a lot to let the other user I'm talking with know that I've read its final message but I have nothing to add anymore, similar to the "Like" button in social media.

Klein Muçi (talkcontribs)

Given the aforementioned Phab task, maybe exploring other possibilities beside "thank you" could be a good thing. As explained there, "thanking" is currently used as a symbol to mean different things in different contexts but that's only because of the current technical limitations (we only have that option available). If we are to actually allow for a more dynamical way of interaction through "react buttons", we can have different ones for different contexts, for example, just to give some food for thought: seen (for acknowledging someone's final comment, this may need fine-tuning not to be considered rude), agree/disagree, support/oppose, etc. Adding a counter on top of that maybe could make voting discussions easier, compressing one line comments while leaving more room for argumentative ones.


@Tacsipacsi, @PPelberg (WMF) - Mentioned because of expressed interest in the subject in similar past discussions.

Zblace (talkcontribs)

Indeed this would make the most basic interaction much more usefull and language neutral (no need to know the language and have support for specific script to pass on the information).

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

The team has been talking about this. It would be convenient for me, so I hope they can build it.

You can't put the thank link directly in the wikitext, but it could be added when the page is displayed (just like the "edit" and "reply" buttons are added when the page is displayed). It might not work on comments that were edited later, but it should be possible for most comments.

I also want to invite you to watch Talk pages project/Usability. If you add useful information/extra buttons, then the appearance changes. This always leads to someone complaining about "clutter". The goal is to make it more usable, but not to have so much clutter that it's hard to read the discussions. Your advice on how to reach the correct balance will be appreciated.

Klein Muçi (talkcontribs)

@Whatamidoing (WMF), yes I understand that. Facebook has all its react buttons hidden until you hover over the like button, mostly for that purpose. I had in mind something like that when I suggested those ideas above. Not the hover part per se but I certainly wasn't expecting many buttons to be showing up in a row.


Whatever choice we go with though, personally I'd really wish for an easier, automatic voting infrastructure, be that for individual comments or for elections like RFAs (even though that's not part of talk pages per se). Beside the reasons said above it would also make counting votes easier overall I believe, making the process mostly (if not all) automatic without utilizing other tools whatsoever.


As for "When looking at a talk page, what do you think would make it easier for you to know what conversations are worth reading?", my first thoughts were on marking bot or mass messages somehow. They often are "less worthy" of reading compared to other manual messages. But to be honest I'm not sure how much I believe those words myself. I'll keep watching that page for future changes.

Zblace (talkcontribs)

+1 YES bot and mass messages need to be marked as such in an distinctive way both visually and semantically (in code) !

Reply to "Thank beside reply link"

DT hijacks create new page process

5
Xaosflux (talkcontribs)

Is there anyway to use discussion tools, but not have it hijack the process of creating new talk pages? When the url has ?redlink=1, the user trying to create a new page now has to go through extra steps to create the page using the standard editor.

PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@Xaosflux: good question.

You can restore the process for creating new talk pages I think you are referring to by disabling the New Discussion Tool.

To disable the New Discussion Tool, please do the following:

  1. Visit Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing
  2. Scroll to the section titled Discussion pages
  3. "Uncheck" the checkbox next to the setting named Enable quick topic adding
  4. ✅ Visit a talk page that has not yet been created and notice the experience you are likely used to has been restored

Note: the instructions above assume you have your interface language set to English.

Piotrus (talkcontribs)

That works but I don't want to disable the new way of starting a section - I like it, particularly the easy way to ping people. That's fine. Please uncouple that new page prompt from this checkbox - add another checkbox to allow bypassing it. And preferably link it to the prompt itself, it needs a simple 'don't show it again' checkbox, problem solved.

Xaosflux (talkcontribs)

Yes thank you, we got that far. the discussiontools-preference-newtopictool-help message could possible be improved. It suggests that it will just add a feature, not replace a feature. (possibly something like: "This will show you an inline form for adding new topics; replacing the standard editor when creating new talk pages or adding new sections.")

Piotrus (talkcontribs)
Reply to "DT hijacks create new page process"

The "reply" link cannot be used to reply to this comment.

3
Klein Muçi (talkcontribs)

Straight question: I get the aforementioned message every time I try to edit this user talk page. What is happening?

Klein Muçi (talkcontribs)

Apparently there were linter problems on the page header. No special reason. Can the message be a tiny bit more informative? By what was being said, all this time I've suspected that the user had somehow opted out of the tool being used at its userpage, not that something else was preventing it.

Matma Rex (talkcontribs)

There is more detailed documentation here: Help:DiscussionTools/Why can't I reply to this comment?#The "reply" link cannot be used to reply to this comment. The message is somewhat vague, because the tool doesn't really understand the problem – it just exits when the page does something weird with templates, to avoid damaging pages. (And also, we don't want to overwhelm users with long technical explanations.)

By the way, there is a separate (and more detailed) message when you can't reply because of a lint error: Help:DiscussionTools/Why can't I reply to this comment?#Comments on this page can't be replied to because of an error in the wikitext

Reply to "The "reply" link cannot be used to reply to this comment."

Pinging users having different signature names

3
Eevee01 (talkcontribs)

Is there a feature to ping users who have different username and signature? Example [[User:ABC|XYZ]] (not real user). When I try to reply them using discussion tool, their username was showing up not their their signature name. So I've to edit in source code to ping them.

Tacsipacsi (talkcontribs)

If you switch to source mode and back to visual mode, the ping link is no longer special, so you can edit the link text in visual mode as well. (I’m not sure if it’s to be considered a bug or a feature, but that’s how it works.) Or you can use the normal link feature instead of the ping feature. By the way, as far as I know, the ping feature is intentionally hard to work around, to prevent users from accidentally changing only the link text and keeping the old link target if they decide to ping someone else.

Eevee01 (talkcontribs)

Thank you.

Reply to "Pinging users having different signature names"

Subscription button not appearing

5
Anarchyte (talkcontribs)

Here's an example. I just enabled the addon and the [reply] buttons are coming up, but [subscribe] is notably missing. Any thoughts why?

Matma Rex (talkcontribs)

Topic subscriptions are not available on English Wikipedia yet (unless you know this one weird trick). We're hoping to make it a part of the beta feature there soon, you can see our plans in task T290498 and the related tasks.

Anarchyte (talkcontribs)

Thank you. Is there a way to change the default reply text through personal css/js/etc pages or is "Reply" the only option?

Matma Rex (talkcontribs)

It's not customizable. (I wonder why you wish to do that, though?)

Anarchyte (talkcontribs)

I usually use "re" rather than "Reply" when I'm responding. Just habits.

Reply to "Subscription button not appearing"
NGC 54 (talkcontribs)

When creating a new topic, the user who created that topic should be automatically subscribed to that topic. This should be enabled/disabled from Preferences.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I think that the Editing team agrees with you. They are working on this.

Do you think that editors who reply to the topic (not creating the topic, but commenting in a topic created by someone else) should also be auto-subscribed to it?

NGC 54 (talkcontribs)

Yes. I think that this option should be enabled/disabled from Preferences, too.

Ffffrr (talkcontribs)

Yeah that sounds like a good idea.

PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)

As @Whatamidoing (WMF) mentioned above, it's timely for you all to be sharing this feedback as the team is actively working on adding the functionality you are describing.

Follow up questions for you both: @NGC 54, can you share what inspired you to suggest that automatically becoming subscribed be added? And @Ffffrr, can you shared what inspired you to agree with the suggestion @NGC 54 made?

NGC 54 (talkcontribs)

I posted this topic. 2 comments were posted, but I did not received any notifications.

PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I see. So maybe this is pretty straightforward...

You started a new topic for discussion and wanted to be notified when people responded to it and you think it reasonable for the software to assume that you each time you start a new discussion you will want to be notified when someone responds.

Does the above seem accurate to you?


Also: do you think it would be reasonable for the software to assume you would want to be notified every time someone posts a comment in a discussion you also commented it, but did not start?

NGC 54 (talkcontribs)
Does the above seem accurate to you?
Yes.
Also: do you think it would be reasonable for the software to assume you would want to be notified every time someone posts a comment in a discussion you also commented it, but did not start?
I showed an interest to that discussion, so likely yes, but I think that not all users would like to be notified for every comment from every discussion they participated to.
Ffffrr (talkcontribs)

I saw a notification about this topic, and it seemed consistent to how Wikipedia and other Wiki projects work.

PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I see, okay! Thank you for sharing this context.

Reply to "Auto subscription"

Automatic Appending Signature on Talk pages

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70.109.137.70 (talkcontribs)

I'm using DiscussionTools which is the new replacement of Structured Discussion. The tool mostly works when signatures are involved. Is it possible to have New Topic and New Page creation under the Talk namespace to automatically add signatures if one is not provided?

70.109.137.70 (talkcontribs)

Also want to make sure a new Discussion page also includes the signature.

index.php?title=Talk:TestPage&action=edit&redlink=1

When a Talk paage does not exist for a page, it shows up as a 'new article' post.

Tacsipacsi (talkcontribs)

The New Discussion Tool (which works on not-yet-created talk pages as well on Wikimedia wikis since a few weeks) automatically adds signatures. This extension is still under development, so it may be that NDT is not yet available or enabled by default in the version you use. Automatically adding signatures in the traditional full-page editor is not possible, as not all edits are comments, and for example signing a WikiProject banner wouldn’t be a good idea.

Reply to "Automatic Appending Signature on Talk pages"
Nikki (talkcontribs)

I frequently get the error "The server did not respond within the expected time." even though every time it happens, my reply had been saved.

The first couple of times it happened, I tried again only to find that I had replied twice because my first attempt at saving hadn't in fact failed. Since then, I've started checking the edit history to make sure. Then when I load the page again, it restores my "unsaved" reply and I have to manually cancel it.

It seems like there is an issue somewhere with how it works. I would expect a timeout to mean the save failed. There shouldn't be a big enough gap between successfully saving and the page receiving a response that it regularly manages to do one but not the other.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

You shouldn't be getting this error frequently. I wouldn't expect anyone to see this more than once a week on average. (When I get it, I have the same experience: it has usually saved. Also, it seems to run in clusters: two or three times in one week, but not again for weeks.)

Do you use the visual editor for your normal editing? Do you ever see a similar error there?

Reply to "Frequent errors when saving"
Dan Shick (WMDE) (talkcontribs)

As I understand it, Structured discussions can currently be enabled per page. Discussion tools, in contrast, is implemented as an opt-in view for each user. Is there any way to make Discussion tools effective per page instead of per user?

Matma Rex (talkcontribs)

If the user has not enabled the beta feature, then there's no way to make them see the new tools.

If you don't see the tools despite enabling the beta feature, you probably can add the __NEWSECTIONLINK__ magic word to the page. In MediaWiki it adds the "Add topic" tab next to the "Edit" tab, and we use it as a hint that the page is a discussion page and should have the tools.

Also, each wiki can be configured so that the tools are opt-out instead of a beta feature. You could get that done if you want everyone to see the tools.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Dan Shick (WMDE) (talkcontribs)

I have indeed done just that, thank you! I discovered that query string solution buried in a Phabricator ticket.

Reply to "Discussion tools per page?"
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