Talk:Accessibility
from Haifa discussion 2011
editAdi: Wikipedia is, in general, quite accessible.
Tables are NOT accessible. Tables should appear as a list as much as possible.
HTML markup: Headings are sometimes not represented properly. Headings are important for the blind. For searching, the site, too. Search suggestions recently became accessible.
Search box - says the shortcut ("Alf-F") twice.
The edit link is marked up as a heading, and it shouldn't be. The heading must be subject only, without blank spaces and without the "edit" link.
Accessibility wishlist posted by User:Graham87, an awesome wikipedian visually impaired
Check out http://www.wikimedia.org.au//wiki/User:Graham87/Accessibility_wishlist
Would be awesome if the bugs could be fixed
"Contents" must be heading level 2.
Toolbox - it cannot be clicked and we don't know what is there under the link, because it's not actually a hyperlink. The same for Print/Export.
Brandon: Could it be solved by using an accessible skin?
Adi: Yes. It's the right way to go. The current skin was designed for sighted people. You don't have to change the whole website.
Brandon: Do you have an account? Do you edit?
Adi: No, i'm afraid to be wrong.
In general Wikipedia does a great job, i wish all websites were like that.
In the JAWS screen reader package, there's a feature called "Research", which gets info from Wikipedia. After you create an accessible skin, you should speak to the JAWS manufacturers and tell them to use it.
Kinzler: we had a project with DZB, some of them are fixed...
Adi: Tab order is fixed.
Kinzler: Image descriptions are read twice?..
Adi: Yes, they are still read twice.
What should be read? - the caption or the "alt"? If the caption is good, there's no need for "alt".
Turning a table to dt/dd would be useful.
What if the HTML would actually say DD and CSS would turn it into a page?
Amir: What do other sites do about tables?
Kinzler: They suck. Handling tables is really bad everywhere.
Idea: Having a "change skin" button.
Idea (Daniel): separate wiki markup for tables that are actually structural tabular data and different markup for lists.
Adi: Blind people usually use regular browsers and not text browsers like Lynx. Lynx is useful for other things, for example running without JavaScript. Blind SW devs do use Lynx for development.
NVDA is great. Adi localized its interface for Hebrew, but it still needs the grammar module. The prices are huge. Windows only.
Linux: SpeakUp, LSR, BLINUX.
Adi doesn't know any blind Wikipedia editors, but there are editors in other countries.
The registration form for Wikimania is very bad for accessibility!! Amir already talked about it to Aude, and Adi should talk to Jeremy Baron. Firefox makes it easier - it has an addon that essentially breaks the CAPTCHA. (Maybe the CAPTCHA should just be removed if it can be broken so easily.)
(captcha is unnecessary if people are paying anyway? could have a captcha that's explicitly optional and a note after submission telling people that didn't fill the captcha to send a short (e.g. 1 sentence) email with registration # and explain why they didn't fill the captcha (and give another offer to fill it in at that point))
Impractical idea
editAt #tech I made the dumb suggestion of enlarging the tick, or single-quote, character, in order to ease composition of wikibolding and wikiitalicizing, and debugging "wrong" rendering when it occurs. In my experience, one stray ' in a paragraph with a lot of wikibolding and wikiitalics _really_ messes things up, to the point of "oh, man, I have to strip out every single ' to find out why this is rendering so wonky." Then I see that the prose looks better without bold or ital. Ways to deal with it:
- Javascript inline styling
- Font substitution, with specially resized '
- Use "ctrl +", like everybody else.
Bugzilla tracking bug
editIs there a reason the main page doesn't link to the tracking bug for a11y issues in bugzilla ? Seems like it would be a useful reference, but I don't know the state of the bug and whether or not it is maintained.
Visually impaired editors
editw:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Accessibility#Visual impairment - what settings, software, or other tools are used to compensate - A thread with useful feedback from editors, mainly concerning screen magnifiers, and other software tools. –Quiddity (talk) 01:13, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
Colour-blindness links and notes
editI saw this http://imgur.com/a/iBRGY/layout/horizontal#0 (click through the 4 thumbnails at the top) a great preference-feature for color-blind gamers, and thought I'd search for everything related:
- m:Accessibility#Colour-blind-friendly images
- m:Link style vote (old)
- mw:User interface guidelines#Design Considerations
- mw:MediaWiki 1.22/wmf2/en
- http://www.reddit.com/r/colorblind
- m:List of Wikimedians by favorite color#Color blind .28w.29
- w:Wikipedia:Style sheets for visually impaired users
- w:Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Text formatting#Color
- w:Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility#Color
- w:Help:Link color
Feel free to add any items to the list, or move it elsewhere, however is useful.
I also tried searching for a color-blind LESS stylesheet, but "LESS" and "CSS" are remarkably hard to google for...
That's all, for now. –Quiddity (talk) 21:11, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
- Nice css example to invert colors: http://davidwalsh.name/invert-colors-css —TheDJ (Not WMF) (talk • contribs) 21:23, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
Linkdump - accessibility and usability
editAccessibility and usability cleanup - hopefully useful for any of us that engage in cleanup work over the coming [timespan]. I think it lists all the main pages, but please add anything I've missed. –Quiddity (talk) 20:26, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
New WMF interest
editAccording to Accessibility/2016 sprint and phabricator:T148708, it seems that some WMF persons are suddenly interested in accessibility. That's good, let's see if we manage to undo some years of accumulated mistakes. The worst offender might be the "grey on grey" virus (see e.g. phabricator:T60683#2907025), do we have a list of decisions to revisit? There are several declined tasks in #Accessibility but I think most bad so-called "design" choices have not been reported since it was so rare to get a positive response. I guess we have to grep the repositories for the various shades of grey and other nasty stuff? Nemo 07:44, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
- As I've already stated on the task we've successfully updated the vast majority of our web products to implement the WCAG level AA conforming color of the WikimediaUI color palette with November 2017. To follow the task, that incorporated grepping over various shades, continue subscribing to phabricator:T148708. Only remaining blocker is Vector and its link color. --Volker E. (WMF) (talk) 04:04, 7 March 2019 (UTC)