Architecture meetings/RFC review 2014-02-14

13:00 UTC, February 14, at #wikimedia-office connect.

Requests for Comment to reviewEdit

Three at most, so we can go in depth.

  1. TitleValue
  2. Deprecating inline styles (quick checkin)
  3. your RFC here


Summary and logsEdit

Meeting summaryEdit

  • manybubbles is "much happier" with latest patch for TitleValue
  • daniel will send email to solicit more reviews
  • manybubbles will comment on gerrit
  • daniel will work more on TitleValue in march
  • shall be a follow-up meeting (in march?) with Tim, Brion, etc. present, even if it's late evening Berlin time

Full logEdit

Meeting logs
13:06 < manybubbles> I'm here too!                                                                  
13:07 < manybubbles> I though there was a bot that would help record                                
13:07 < DanielK_WMDE> there used to be...                                                           
13:07 < aude2> We might use wikimedia-meetbot channel                                               
13:09 < DanielK_WMDE> i don't see the bot there either                                              
13:09 < DanielK_WMDE> let's just stay here                                                          
13:09 < DanielK_WMDE> so.                                                                           
13:09 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: have you seen the version I pushed to gerrit yesterday?          
13:09 < manybubbles> yeah!  I saw it.  I'm much happier                                             
13:10 -!- hashar [~sempitern@mediawiki/hashar] has joined #mediawiki-rfc                            
13:10 < DanielK_WMDE> I'm not totally convinced that it's really the better design, but it's simpler for now, and can be refactored later
13:10 < aude2> Anyway                                                                               
13:10 < manybubbles> DanielK_WMDE: that is the spirit                                               
13:10 < DanielK_WMDE> next steps for me would be: get it to pass all tests, and get it merged. but for getting it merged, i'll need more feedback from more people, i think...
13:11 < manybubbles> yeah.                                                                          
13:11 < manybubbles> I wanted anomie to give feedback because he was one of the grumblers           
13:11 < DanielK_WMDE> also, i'll need to rebase the SpecialCategories refactor. Will try to get that and the fixes done today
13:11 < manybubbles> thanks!  aren't you traveling today?                                           
13:12 < manybubbles> I'll post some comments on gerrit as well.                                     
13:12 < manybubbles> I don't have a big list.                                                       
13:12 < DanielK_WMDE> yes. anomie, tim, brion, chad, roan, perhaps aaron...                         
13:12 < manybubbles> but was reviewing on mobile and didn't want to log in,etc                      
13:12 -!- YuviPanda [~yuvipanda@mediawiki/yuvipanda] has joined #mediawiki-rfc                      
13:13 < YuviPanda> 18 December? feels a bit dated                                                   
13:13 < DanielK_WMDE> would be great if you could do this in the next hours, so i can reply. i want to get as much of this done today as possible
13:13 < DanielK_WMDE> YuviPanda: hm?                                                                
13:13 < DanielK_WMDE> hey yuvi ;)                                                                   
13:13 < YuviPanda> DanielK_WMDE: /topic                                                             
13:13 < YuviPanda> hi DanielK_WMDE :)                                                               
13:14 -!- DanielK_WMDE changed the topic of #mediawiki-rfc to: RDF review | #wikimedia-meetbot | http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/RFC%20review
13:14 < aude2> Rdf?                                                                                 
13:14 < DanielK_WMDE> YuviPanda: want to add your 2¢ to the TitleValue stuff?                       
13:14 -!- DanielK_WMDE changed the topic of #mediawiki-rfc to: RFC review | #wikimedia-meetbot | http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/RFC%20review
13:14 < aude2> :)                                                                                   
13:14 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: oh ffs ;)                                                              
13:15 < YuviPanda> DanielK_WMDE: nah, I'm just here to watch :) I haven't been writing any PHP for a long while now
13:15 < DanielK_WMDE> YuviPanda: probably not much to watch, manybubbles and aude seem happy, the grumblers arn't here :P
13:15 < YuviPanda> heh                                                                              
13:15 < YuviPanda> wait is it now? thought it was later                                             
13:16 < DanielK_WMDE> no, now.                                                                      
13:16 < aude2> Not sure about calling the one class "codec"                                         
13:16 < aude2> But I'm never good with picking names                                                
13:16 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: well, it formats/serializes and parses. what would you call it? A Parmatter?
13:16 < aude2> Not sure                 
13:16 < DanielK_WMDE> could also split the implementation again.                                    
13:17 < manybubbles> I'll go forth and comment on the patch                                         
13:17 < DanielK_WMDE> implementing parsing and formatting in the same class is convenient for consistency and because both task require the same knowledge
13:17 < DanielK_WMDE> otoh, it's annoying if you want to use decorators.                            
13:17 < manybubbles> to me the codec name isn't a problem.     
13:17 < DanielK_WMDE> otoh, it's annoying if you want to use decorators.                            
13:17 < manybubbles> to me the codec name isn't a problem.                                          
13:17 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: yay :)                                                           
13:18 < DanielK_WMDE> fyi, after today, i'll probably not work on TitleValue for 10 days (short vacation). Will pick up again after that.
13:18 < aude2> It just sets precedence                                                              
13:18 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: what does? combining the implementations?                              
13:18 < aude2> Would prefer things split more but recognize the concerns                            
13:18 < aude2> Yes                                                                                  
13:19 < DanielK_WMDE> well, it was split more, i just backtracked a bit on that :)                  
13:19 < DanielK_WMDE> (look at the earlier patch sets)                                              
13:19 < aude2> Ok as first step though if we do second step                                         
13:19 < aude2> Then we are left with more legacy code to maintain for a while                       
13:20 < aude2> Still might be ok if it makes folks happier                                          
13:21 < DanielK_WMDE> I think having the implementations centralized will help with acceptance. If it becomes a problem, we can split it up easily
13:21  * aude2 observes now                                                                         
13:23 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: i'll send an email later, inviting more folks to review. I'll pick up work on this in march.
13:23 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: is there anything mroe to discuss? Any nitty gritty details or broad sweeping concepts we havn't covered?....
13:23 < manybubbles> aude2: I think you'll get people fighting you more on splitting the codec      
13:23 < aude2> heh                                                                                  
13:24 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: can you think of an alternative to the term "codec"?             
13:24 < manybubbles> DanielK_WMDE: meh                                                              
13:24 < manybubbles> Editor is standard in Java but it is a stupid standard                         
13:25 < manybubbles> that is something worth bikeshedding in gerrit, I think                        
13:25 < DanielK_WMDE> i guess.                                                                      
13:25 < DanielK_WMDE> "editor" is utterly misleading.                                               
13:25 < manybubbles> yeah                                                                           
13:25 < manybubbles> it has history                                                                 
13:25 < manybubbles> like how "tar" has history                                                     
13:25 < manybubbles> but that doesn't make it good at all                                           
13:25 < DanielK_WMDE> hehe                                                                          
13:26 -!- sumanah [~sumanah@mediawiki/sumanah] has joined #mediawiki-rfc                            
13:26 < manybubbles> there we go                                                                    
13:26 < DanielK_WMDE> hey sumanah!                                                                  
13:26 < sumanah> Hi!                                                                                
13:26 < manybubbles> so we've talked for a half an hour and I'm happy with it                       
13:26 < DanielK_WMDE> cool!                                                                         
13:26 < manybubbles> well, was happy with it when I reviewed it this morning                        
13:26 < aude2> probably makes sense for followup meeting in march                                   
13:27 < aude2> At time that Tim can attend and more sf people                                       
13:27 < manybubbles> I'll see if I can shake anomie to review it                                    
13:27 < aude2> Even if it means 11pm for us                                                         
13:27 < manybubbles> bleh                                                                           
13:27 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: so, aude and manybubbles seem happy anough. there's a short list of people i'd like to have another look. will mail them later today.
13:27 < sumanah> hi there, quick question, can anyone email me the IRC log of today's meeting?      
13:27 < aude2> Sure I can post log                                                                  
13:27 < manybubbles> perfect                                                                        
13:27 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: sure. we couldn't figure out how to get meetbot in here.             
13:28 < sumanah> brion was meant to attend today, I'm regretting he's not here                      
13:28 < DanielK_WMDE> oh, is the date for the follow-up already set? I guess I  missed that...      
13:28 < sumanah> sounds like you got some progress made though?                                     
13:28 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: when is it?                                                            
13:28 < aude2> Not set                                                                              
13:28 < aude2> Just suggesting   
13:28 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: a bit, there wasn't too much to discuss. no critics here :)          
13:28 < sumanah> we're gonna have these RFC checkins/discussions to move RFCs along each week - we could set the first week of March?
13:28 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: ah, ok                                                                 
13:28 < sumanah> (the architects would be there, could potentially approve, veto, or ask for revise-and-resubmit)
13:29 < aude2> Whatever works for Daniel Tim and brion                                              
13:29 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: sounds good, but is it ok to talk about TitleValue at that time again?
13:29 < aude2> And nik                                                                              
13:29 < DanielK_WMDE> actually - i think it makes sense to keep talking about an $RFC until it's done.
13:29 -!- helderwiki [~Helder@wikibooks/Helder-wiki] has joined #mediawiki-rfc                      
13:29 < aude2> None of us here are in position to approve                                           
13:29 < sumanah> DanielK_WMDE: if none of the architects are in this meeting here right now, then this is just y'all working on the RFC, not one of the weekly RFC Review meetings
13:29 < DanielK_WMDE> 11pm is fine for me, depending on the day                                     
13:29 < aude2> Me too                                                                               
13:30 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: well, technically, mark is in the channel :P                         
13:30 < sumanah> DanielK_WMDE: did he talk?                                                         
13:30 < DanielK_WMDE> nope                                                                          
13:30  * sumanah waits for aude's aude2's log                                                       
13:30 < sumanah> DanielK_WMDE: there you go                                                         
13:30 < DanielK_WMDE> i guess he isn't too interested in TitleValue stuff                           
13:31 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: yea, "technically".                                                  
13:31 < DanielK_WMDE> anyway, i don't care as long as we make progress.                             
13:31 < aude2> Shall post log when I come back to office                                            
13:31 < DanielK_WMDE> but.. getting Tim *and* Brion in here at a time hwne I'm awake might be tricky...
13:31 < sumanah> I declare that this was an rfc work meeting, not an RFC review meeting of the type that has architects in it. anyway. DanielK_WMDE would you be ok actually talking with brion later today?
13:32 < DanielK_WMDE> though 11pm here might work                                                   
13:32 < DanielK_WMDE> sure, would be happy to!                                                      
13:32 < sumanah> ok, DanielK_WMDE, I will try to put you, manybubbles and brion in the same room at the same time
13:32 < sumanah> preferably #wikimedia-office which is where meetbot does work :)                   
13:32 < manybubbles> sumanah: thanks                                                                
13:32 < manybubbles> ah                                                                             
13:32 < DanielK_WMDE> i'm here until at least 8pm my time. may not be reactive on irc, though. if all else fails, text my phone.
13:32 < manybubbles> I wasn't sure where to go                                                      
13:33 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: as opposed to #wikimedia-meetbot?... this is confusing :P            
13:33 < DanielK_WMDE> anyway                                                                        
13:33 < DanielK_WMDE> thanks, sumanah!                                                              
13:34 < sumanah> it was in the wikitech-l email to go to #wikimedia-office but next time I will send a GCal invite
13:34 < sumanah> to the people I suspect will be most interested                                    
13:34 < DanielK_WMDE> so, maybe this channel should be closed or redirected?                        
13:34 < DanielK_WMDE> or #wikimedia-office should at least be in the topic?                         
13:36 < sumanah> DanielK_WMDE: if you know how to close and redirect an IRC channel please be my guest
13:36 < sumanah> I had to search around to find you folks :p                                        
13:37 < DanielK_WMDE> closing is easy: make everybody leave :)                                      
13:37 < DanielK_WMDE> there's no ChanServ in here, so it's not kept alive                           
13:37 < sumanah> DanielK_WMDE: you actually serious?                                                
13:37 < sumanah> they'll just come back                                                             
13:38 < sumanah> because evidently in the autumn this is where you all got used to having your meetings
13:38 < DanielK_WMDE> well yea. redirecting would be the only way, i'd ask in #freenode about that. 
13:38 < DanielK_WMDE> clsoign is easy, but anyone joining a channel will just re-create it. there's no such thing as a closed channel.
13:38 < DanielK_WMDE> anyway                                                                        
13:39 < DanielK_WMDE> or we could just actually have rfc meetings here. i don't really care, it should just be documented and consistent :)