Architecture meetings/RFC review 2014-02-14

13:00 UTC, February 14, at #wikimedia-office ^connect.

Requests for Comment to review

Three at most, so we can go in depth.

1. TitleValue
2. Deprecating inline styles (quick checkin)
3. your RFC here

Summary and logs

Meeting summary

• manybubbles is "much happier" with latest patch for TitleValue
• daniel will send email to solicit more reviews
• manybubbles will comment on gerrit
• daniel will work more on TitleValue in march
• shall be a follow-up meeting (in march?) with Tim, Brion, etc. present, even if it's late evening Berlin time

Full log

Meeting logs

13:06 < manybubbles> I'm here too! 13:07 < manybubbles> I though there was a bot that would help record 13:07 < DanielK_WMDE> there used to be... 13:07 < aude2> We might use wikimedia-meetbot channel 13:09 < DanielK_WMDE> i don't see the bot there either 13:09 < DanielK_WMDE> let's just stay here 13:09 < DanielK_WMDE> so. 13:09 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: have you seen the version I pushed to gerrit yesterday? 13:09 < manybubbles> yeah! I saw it. I'm much happier 13:10 -!- hashar [~sempitern@mediawiki/hashar] has joined #mediawiki-rfc 13:10 < DanielK_WMDE> I'm not totally convinced that it's really the better design, but it's simpler for now, and can be refactored later 13:10 < aude2> Anyway 13:10 < manybubbles> DanielK_WMDE: that is the spirit 13:10 < DanielK_WMDE> next steps for me would be: get it to pass all tests, and get it merged. but for getting it merged, i'll need more feedback from more people, i think... 13:11 < manybubbles> yeah. 13:11 < manybubbles> I wanted anomie to give feedback because he was one of the grumblers 13:11 < DanielK_WMDE> also, i'll need to rebase the SpecialCategories refactor. Will try to get that and the fixes done today 13:11 < manybubbles> thanks! aren't you traveling today? 13:12 < manybubbles> I'll post some comments on gerrit as well. 13:12 < manybubbles> I don't have a big list. 13:12 < DanielK_WMDE> yes. anomie, tim, brion, chad, roan, perhaps aaron... 13:12 < manybubbles> but was reviewing on mobile and didn't want to log in,etc 13:12 -!- YuviPanda [~yuvipanda@mediawiki/yuvipanda] has joined #mediawiki-rfc 13:13 < YuviPanda> 18 December? feels a bit dated 13:13 < DanielK_WMDE> would be great if you could do this in the next hours, so i can reply. i want to get as much of this done today as possible 13:13 < DanielK_WMDE> YuviPanda: hm? 13:13 < DanielK_WMDE> hey yuvi ;) 13:13 < YuviPanda> DanielK_WMDE: /topic 13:13 < YuviPanda> hi DanielK_WMDE :) 13:14 -!- DanielK_WMDE changed the topic of #mediawiki-rfc to: RDF review | #wikimedia-meetbot | http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/RFC%20review 13:14 < aude2> Rdf? 13:14 < DanielK_WMDE> YuviPanda: want to add your 2¢ to the TitleValue stuff? 13:14 -!- DanielK_WMDE changed the topic of #mediawiki-rfc to: RFC review | #wikimedia-meetbot | http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/RFC%20review 13:14 < aude2> :) 13:14 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: oh ffs ;) 13:15 < YuviPanda> DanielK_WMDE: nah, I'm just here to watch :) I haven't been writing any PHP for a long while now 13:15 < DanielK_WMDE> YuviPanda: probably not much to watch, manybubbles and aude seem happy, the grumblers arn't here :P 13:15 < YuviPanda> heh 13:15 < YuviPanda> wait is it now? thought it was later 13:16 < DanielK_WMDE> no, now. 13:16 < aude2> Not sure about calling the one class "codec" 13:16 < aude2> But I'm never good with picking names 13:16 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: well, it formats/serializes and parses. what would you call it? A Parmatter? 13:16 < aude2> Not sure 13:16 < DanielK_WMDE> could also split the implementation again. 13:17 < manybubbles> I'll go forth and comment on the patch 13:17 < DanielK_WMDE> implementing parsing and formatting in the same class is convenient for consistency and because both task require the same knowledge 13:17 < DanielK_WMDE> otoh, it's annoying if you want to use decorators. 13:17 < manybubbles> to me the codec name isn't a problem. 13:17 < DanielK_WMDE> otoh, it's annoying if you want to use decorators. 13:17 < manybubbles> to me the codec name isn't a problem. 13:17 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: yay :) 13:18 < DanielK_WMDE> fyi, after today, i'll probably not work on TitleValue for 10 days (short vacation). Will pick up again after that. 13:18 < aude2> It just sets precedence 13:18 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: what does? combining the implementations? 13:18 < aude2> Would prefer things split more but recognize the concerns 13:18 < aude2> Yes 13:19 < DanielK_WMDE> well, it was split more, i just backtracked a bit on that :) 13:19 < DanielK_WMDE> (look at the earlier patch sets) 13:19 < aude2> Ok as first step though if we do second step 13:19 < aude2> Then we are left with more legacy code to maintain for a while 13:20 < aude2> Still might be ok if it makes folks happier 13:21 < DanielK_WMDE> I think having the implementations centralized will help with acceptance. If it becomes a problem, we can split it up easily 13:21 * aude2 observes now 13:23 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: i'll send an email later, inviting more folks to review. I'll pick up work on this in march. 13:23 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: is there anything mroe to discuss? Any nitty gritty details or broad sweeping concepts we havn't covered?.... 13:23 < manybubbles> aude2: I think you'll get people fighting you more on splitting the codec 13:23 < aude2> heh 13:24 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: can you think of an alternative to the term "codec"? 13:24 < manybubbles> DanielK_WMDE: meh 13:24 < manybubbles> Editor is standard in Java but it is a stupid standard 13:25 < manybubbles> that is something worth bikeshedding in gerrit, I think 13:25 < DanielK_WMDE> i guess. 13:25 < DanielK_WMDE> "editor" is utterly misleading. 13:25 < manybubbles> yeah 13:25 < manybubbles> it has history 13:25 < manybubbles> like how "tar" has history 13:25 < manybubbles> but that doesn't make it good at all 13:25 < DanielK_WMDE> hehe 13:26 -!- sumanah [~sumanah@mediawiki/sumanah] has joined #mediawiki-rfc 13:26 < manybubbles> there we go 13:26 < DanielK_WMDE> hey sumanah! 13:26 < sumanah> Hi! 13:26 < manybubbles> so we've talked for a half an hour and I'm happy with it 13:26 < DanielK_WMDE> cool! 13:26 < manybubbles> well, was happy with it when I reviewed it this morning 13:26 < aude2> probably makes sense for followup meeting in march 13:27 < aude2> At time that Tim can attend and more sf people 13:27 < manybubbles> I'll see if I can shake anomie to review it 13:27 < aude2> Even if it means 11pm for us 13:27 < manybubbles> bleh 13:27 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: so, aude and manybubbles seem happy anough. there's a short list of people i'd like to have another look. will mail them later today. 13:27 < sumanah> hi there, quick question, can anyone email me the IRC log of today's meeting? 13:27 < aude2> Sure I can post log 13:27 < manybubbles> perfect 13:27 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: sure. we couldn't figure out how to get meetbot in here. 13:28 < sumanah> brion was meant to attend today, I'm regretting he's not here 13:28 < DanielK_WMDE> oh, is the date for the follow-up already set? I guess I missed that... 13:28 < sumanah> sounds like you got some progress made though? 13:28 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: when is it? 13:28 < aude2> Not set 13:28 < aude2> Just suggesting 13:28 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: a bit, there wasn't too much to discuss. no critics here :) 13:28 < sumanah> we're gonna have these RFC checkins/discussions to move RFCs along each week - we could set the first week of March? 13:28 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: ah, ok 13:28 < sumanah> (the architects would be there, could potentially approve, veto, or ask for revise-and-resubmit) 13:29 < aude2> Whatever works for Daniel Tim and brion 13:29 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: sounds good, but is it ok to talk about TitleValue at that time again? 13:29 < aude2> And nik 13:29 < DanielK_WMDE> actually - i think it makes sense to keep talking about an $RFC until it's done. 13:29 -!- helderwiki [~Helder@wikibooks/Helder-wiki] has joined #mediawiki-rfc 13:29 < aude2> None of us here are in position to approve 13:29 < sumanah> DanielK_WMDE: if none of the architects are in this meeting here right now, then this is just y'all working on the RFC, not one of the weekly RFC Review meetings 13:29 < DanielK_WMDE> 11pm is fine for me, depending on the day 13:29 < aude2> Me too 13:30 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: well, technically, mark is in the channel :P 13:30 < sumanah> DanielK_WMDE: did he talk? 13:30 < DanielK_WMDE> nope 13:30 * sumanah waits for aude's aude2's log 13:30 < sumanah> DanielK_WMDE: there you go 13:30 < DanielK_WMDE> i guess he isn't too interested in TitleValue stuff 13:31 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: yea, "technically". 13:31 < DanielK_WMDE> anyway, i don't care as long as we make progress. 13:31 < aude2> Shall post log when I come back to office 13:31 < DanielK_WMDE> but.. getting Tim *and* Brion in here at a time hwne I'm awake might be tricky... 13:31 < sumanah> I declare that this was an rfc work meeting, not an RFC review meeting of the type that has architects in it. anyway. DanielK_WMDE would you be ok actually talking with brion later today? 13:32 < DanielK_WMDE> though 11pm here might work 13:32 < DanielK_WMDE> sure, would be happy to! 13:32 < sumanah> ok, DanielK_WMDE, I will try to put you, manybubbles and brion in the same room at the same time 13:32 < sumanah> preferably #wikimedia-office which is where meetbot does work :) 13:32 < manybubbles> sumanah: thanks 13:32 < manybubbles> ah 13:32 < DanielK_WMDE> i'm here until at least 8pm my time. may not be reactive on irc, though. if all else fails, text my phone. 13:32 < manybubbles> I wasn't sure where to go 13:33 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: as opposed to #wikimedia-meetbot?... this is confusing :P 13:33 < DanielK_WMDE> anyway 13:33 < DanielK_WMDE> thanks, sumanah! 13:34 < sumanah> it was in the wikitech-l email to go to #wikimedia-office but next time I will send a GCal invite 13:34 < sumanah> to the people I suspect will be most interested 13:34 < DanielK_WMDE> so, maybe this channel should be closed or redirected? 13:34 < DanielK_WMDE> or #wikimedia-office should at least be in the topic? 13:36 < sumanah> DanielK_WMDE: if you know how to close and redirect an IRC channel please be my guest 13:36 < sumanah> I had to search around to find you folks :p 13:37 < DanielK_WMDE> closing is easy: make everybody leave :) 13:37 < DanielK_WMDE> there's no ChanServ in here, so it's not kept alive 13:37 < sumanah> DanielK_WMDE: you actually serious? 13:37 < sumanah> they'll just come back 13:38 < sumanah> because evidently in the autumn this is where you all got used to having your meetings 13:38 < DanielK_WMDE> well yea. redirecting would be the only way, i'd ask in #freenode about that. 13:38 < DanielK_WMDE> clsoign is easy, but anyone joining a channel will just re-create it. there's no such thing as a closed channel. 13:38 < DanielK_WMDE> anyway 13:39 < DanielK_WMDE> or we could just actually have rfc meetings here. i don't really care, it should just be documented and consistent :)