<Amgine> pfhayes: Dlemieux expecting to be here?
<pfhayes> Amgine: i don't know, i can call him
<Amgine> sms ping should do.
<heatherw> :)
<pfhayes> no answer
<Amgine> Okay, well, let's roll this. YuviPanda: you're up.
<pfhayes> we can start though
<YuviPanda> sooo… beta?
<pfhayes> yup
<pfhayes> we're ready to go
<pfhayes> we had a blocking bug that made the app unusable on 4.0
<pfhayes> but we just resolved it
<YuviPanda> \o/
<pfhayes> we still have a couple more, but nothing preventing a beta release
<pfhayes> so…. what do we do?
* dlemieux (~dlemieux@CPE602ad072f7e8-CM602ad072f7e5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #Wiktionary-mobile
<pfhayes> hi dlemieux
<dlemieux> Hello!
<YuviPanda> pfhayes: okay.
<YuviPanda> 1. make a signing certificate, you'll use this for all betas
<YuviPanda> 2. make a build, sign it.
<YuviPanda> 3. Post it to the mobile-l, call it a beta, and make people use it
<YuviPanda> 4. Post it everywhere you can see, make people use it, fix bugs
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<sumanah> thanks for the heads-up Amgine
<Amgine> yw
<pfhayes> YuviPanda: cool, do we need to do anything special to get a signing certificate?
<YuviPanda> pfhayes: nope. Lots of tutorials around, google up :)
<pfhayes> cool so it doesn't need to be signed by Wikimedia Foundation or anything like that?
<Amgine> The implied question there is: do we need to use an authority, or self-sign is okay?
<YuviPanda> pfhayes: no.
<pfhayes> YuviPanda: great
<pfhayes> okay, I don't mind making the signed build and sending out the message
<pfhayes> will do that after the meeting
<sumanah> hi all
<pfhayes> hi sumanah
<Amgine> anyone have the url for the jenkins build?
<YuviPanda> Amgine: IIRC jenkins build would be broken
<sumanah> http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2012/03/new-kind-of-summer-job-open-source.html Google Summer of Code is now open for applications
<sumanah> deadline is April 6th
<Amgine> kk.
<pfhayes> so, once the beta rolls out, we will need to start working on the bugs that come rolling in, as well as the ones we have outstanding
<pfhayes> tonyC_: i saw you got the bug I filed for you about disabled icons on 4.0?
<tonyC_> yeah im looking around the code for it, but it seems like nothings wrong, as it works perfectly in 2.3
<pfhayes> is there anything we can do about it?
<pfhayes> YuviPanda: maybe you have seen this in wikipedia. but we find that the disabled menu icons don't at all look disabled on 4.0
<tonyC_> but i have seen it on my phone, and i dont think its *super* important as long as the button is unclicable
<pfhayes> YuviPanda: see https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35503
* YuviPanda checks
<YuviPanda> hmm, I see.
<pfhayes> I imagine that it, in principle, would also be seen on Wikipedia. however, I couldn't get a scenario where one of the front-facing menu icons was disabled, so it might be a nonissue
<YuviPanda> i pfhayes possibly.
<YuviPanda> pfhayes: it would be if you got an error page
<tonyC_> YuviPanda: does the wikipedia app's current build have issues with selecting text and going "forward" in android 4.0?
<YuviPanda> not when we tested, no
<tonyC_> hmm i had those issues when i built it
<Amgine> Side possibility for tonyC_: is it possible to use different icon when disabled? a speaker icon without sound waves is traditional for 'sound muted/disabled'
<tonyC_> not that i know of, you set an icon and it gets darkened when it is disabled
<YuviPanda> but this shouldn't block the beta guys
<pfhayes> don't we have a light icon and a dark icon?
<Amgine> No, this isn't a blocker YuviPanda.
<pfhayes> YuviPanda: nope, we are good to go for beta. i will send out the beta after the meeting
<Amgine> We should probably do individual standups?
<YuviPanda> yes
<sheac> sounds great :)
<Amgine> Who's up first?
<pfhayes> sheac: you start
<sheac> pfhayes: thanks
<sheac> So I've been working on removing our app from the list of apps that we can share a page to.
<sheac> Both fixes I've proposed so far have had problems with them and I'm currently working on the second problem: localization
<sheac> The solution I'm working on involves passing the localized string from the Javascript up to the Java where we'll use it, since I don't know how to get at "messages" from Java.
<sheac> If that doesn't work, this could be tricky.
<pfhayes> sheac: isn't the existing share menu already localized?
<YuviPanda> sheac: I still don't understand *why* that's a problem.
<YuviPanda> the app doesn't show up in any 'share' items for me
<sheac> pfhayes: correct.
<YuviPanda> 'share' is taken care of by the OS, and Wiktionary/Wikipedia app doesn't show up there. what's the issue?
<dlemieux> The Wiktionary app is supposed to show up there
<pfhayes> YuviPanda: for us, Wiktionary is a share target. this is so you can select words in other apps and look them up in Wiktionary
<YuviPanda> pfhayes: shouldn't that be an 'open' intent rather than 'share'?
<pfhayes> dlemieux?
<dlemieux> YuviPanda: I don't understand what that means, could you elaborate?
<YuviPanda> dlemieux: the idea is to let people 'open' words in the wiktionary app, if I'm right?
<YuviPanda> so that you can look up definitions?
<dlemieux> yep
<YuviPanda> so, 'share' is meant for apps that 'share' stuff - twitter, facebook, etc
<YuviPanda> while 'open' is for apps like ours (WP app uses it)
<YuviPanda> so i'm trying to understand *why* share makes sense for Wiktionary app.
<dlemieux> we were using the term 'share' to represent any time an app offered text to be handled by another app
<dlemieux> so sharing to facebook means making a post on facebook
<dlemieux> sharing to wiktionary means letting wiktionary look up the word
<pfhayes> is there such a thing as an open intent? if so that makes more sense I think
<pfhayes> but I don't know much about this
<sheac> i'm trying to find that out
<YuviPanda> pfhayes: we use that in the wikipedia app
<pfhayes> YuviPanda: what for?
<pfhayes> is this where when you try to visit wikipedia in the browser, you can open it in wikipedia app?
<YuviPanda> yeah
<YuviPanda> https://github.com/wikimedia/WikipediaMobile/blob/master/AndroidManifest.xml#L25
<dlemieux> So what does that intent filter code do on someone's phone? I don't think I under stand the use case it is for.
<sheac> that line is the same as Wiktionary
<sheac> I think the part that makes us show up in our own list is the SEND intent
<sheac> or rather the intentfilter that has SEND as its action
<dlemieux> YuviPanda: The use case we wanted to support was if someone is in a browser, highlights a word, and chooses share, then Wiktionary will be an option for them, and the result is defining the word in our app
<YuviPanda> ahhh, i see.
<pfhayes> is share the only option available to them? is there anything else they can do to a word, like 'open' it?
<dlemieux> I believe the word 'share' is just being used in many contexts here
<dlemieux> The app 'exporting' the data is doing a 'SEND' operation I believe
<YuviPanda> i guess 'sharing' a word to look up its meaning feels weird?
<dlemieux> So the internet browser app, or the memo app, or wherever the word is coming from, that is the app that gets to choose the word like 'share via' or 'export to' etc..
<dlemieux> If they knew we existed they might choose the text 'open with' instead
<YuviPanda> hmm
<YuviPanda> okay
<YuviPanda> a limitation of the android intents system, i guess
<sheac> I think we could probably take care of this by switching the SEND intent filter to SEARCH and then performing a search on the term that's coming in to us.
<pfhayes> that makes sense
<sheac> That way we could still use action = SEND for outgoing shares
<sheac> it would also make the feature more robust to crappy strings
<dlemieux> Okay but if we don't accept ACTION_SEND intents, then we miss out on all the browsers and reading apps that use ACTION_SEND
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<pfhayes> dlemieux: is that the most common?
<sheac> is ACTION_SEND a really common action, then?
<dlemieux> From what I've seen, it is what they all use
<pfhayes> also, certainly we can accept more than one intent, right?
<YuviPand_> apologies, got disconnected.
<sheac> right, we can, but the point of switching to ACTION_SEARCH would be to avoid showing up as an app we can SEND to
<pfhayes> but dlemieux says we should appear as one we can send to
<dlemieux> Indeed.
<pfhayes> and isn't the problem that we are showing up as SHARE when we don't want to?
<pfhayes> to clarify: we are talking about four intents: OPEN, SHARE, SEND, and SEARCH?
<pfhayes> and those are all distinct?
<sheac> i don't know about OPEN or SHARE
* YuviPanda has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
* YuviPand_ is now known as YuviPanda
<dlemieux> I only know about SEND and SEARCH as well, but as far as i knew the SEARCH was only invoked when they click their magnifying glass button on newer android phones
<dlemieux> sheac: do you know anything more about the search?
<sheac> dlemieux: nope. this is the first time I've seen it
<Amgine> Are we looking at OpenIntents for similar patterns?
<YuviPanda> you guys could use other android-y forums to help sort this out too
<YuviPanda> stackoverflow.com, etc :P
<sheac> right, but dlemieux says that we're likely to be invisible if we use some obscure intent/action
<pfhayes> okay, dlemieux and sheac can look into this before our next meeting
<dlemieux> I just looked into it, I believe we should keep the SHARE and also add in SEARCH
<dlemieux> I will continue to look into this
<dlemieux> With sheac
<pfhayes> cool
<pfhayes> can we move on to next standup, or does sheac have more to say?
<sheac> so… that's my standup.
<pfhayes> cool, dlemieux do you have anything?
<sheac> just a second, pfhayes
<sheac> haha
<Amgine> Well, remember, the full standup documents what someone is working on, then any blockers.
<sheac> true. but i got the idea that not many of us think the solution i'm working on is worth pursuing. is that right?
<Amgine> team members?
<dlemieux> If you had a solution that simple stops the wiktionary app from sharing to itself, then I think that would be useful
<dlemieux> simply*
<sheac> that works for me. either option: keep trying to focus on another bug
<Amgine> <nods> And don't limit yourself to one bug. If you run into a blocker, move on to another.
<sheac> Amgine: good point.
<pfhayes> sheac: if sharing from wiktionary to itself doesn't make any sense, then hide it
<pfhayes> but i don't think the solution is still complete. we still want sharing or sending or whatever to make sense
<sheac> awesome. ok, then I'm for sure done my part of the standup.
<pfhayes> cool
<pfhayes> dlemieux?
<dlemieux> Okay, so one blocker for a while is getting those official app icons and search bar icons sorted out.
<dlemieux> Amgine: before we had agreed on the one with the red W, but I send out a message to you and heatherw about how people were saying it 'doesn't look good' on their phones
<sumanah> ok, I gotta head off
<dlemieux> Are we making another icon, or just using that one for now?
<sumanah> but I am glad you all are not stuck :-)
<sumanah> (mostly)
<dlemieux> bye sumanah!
<heatherw> i replied about why it does not look good, and asked for direction regarding what you would like to do.
* sumanah (~sumanah@mediawiki/sumanah) has left #Wiktionary-mobile ("Leaving")
<dlemieux> Indeed, heatherw has been a big help.
<dlemieux> I just didn't want her to keep having to redo work when it seemed like our end wasn't really sure what we wanted.
<heatherw> i would recommend either lightening the outline a lot, or straightening the icon to 90 degrees instead of a tilt.
<heatherw> :) thanks, dlemieux
<Amgine> <grin> I have little to add. I agree with heatherw
<pfhayes> works for me
<dlemieux> In my opinion we should straighten out the icon to 90 degrees, and then use a red W without the tile for the search bar
<Amgine> One issue which was raised by a couple people to me is the red W doesn't really imply Wiktionary "too similar to Wikipedia"
<Amgine> But I have no clue what else to use. So meh.
<dlemieux> The bigger issue was that Wiktionary hasn't branded a logo though right?
<dlemieux> They use a different logo in each language
<Amgine> <nods> Sort of. There are two 'logos' - the group of tiles and the definition logo.
<Amgine> Neither is suitable for this application.
<dlemieux> Right, okay so heatherw lets go with the 90 degree version.
<dlemieux> And the sizes should all be the same as last time.
<Amgine> I could look through the various beauty pageants for the future app, but for the beta let's go with this and see what the feedback is.
<heatherw> with a tile? dlemieux
<dlemieux> Amgine / team? We are using the tile right?
<Amgine> Yes.
<dlemieux> Okay great :)
<sheac> i'm happy with taht!
<Amgine> heatherw: we should talk before friday about the previous beauty pageants.
<dlemieux> Okay, so for this week I will work on the icons, and getting information for SEND/SEARCH intents, and likely implementing the SEARCH intent
<pfhayes> cool
<dlemieux> Standup done.
<pfhayes> tonyC_?
<tonyC_> Since last time, I figured out what was preventing the clicks from registering in 4.0 and I'm still figuring out bugs for that version
<tonyC_> I dont know what is so different, since the 2.3 emulator runs excellently, but once it goes onto my phone theres just a bunch of new bugs
<Amgine> Is there a 4.0 emulator?
<pfhayes> tonyC_: I have been working on a 4.0 phone as well, I haven't seen that many bugs. can you tell me what you've been seeing?
<tonyC_> It runs *very* slowly, and is almost unsuable
<pfhayes> really?
<pfhayes> on my phone it works great...
<tonyC_> i meant the emulator
<tonyC_> pfhayes: yeah ive noticed that "forwards" is always disabled and "select text" does nothing
<Amgine> Bugzilla #s?
<heatherw> okay Amgine (also you will have to let me know what beauty pageant you are talking about :))
<tonyC_> pfhayes: but the app does run great
<pfhayes> tonyC_: I can reproduce the always disabled forward...
<tonyC_> Amgine: I wanted to borrow a friends phone to see if he has the same bugs
<tonyC_> so i havent added it to bugzilla yet
<pfhayes> and the select text =\
<pfhayes> so consider them reproduced
<Amgine> heatherw: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary/logo <- the 2006 and 2009 logo voting processes.
<heatherw> ah!
<tonyC_> pfhayes: haha well there you go, ill add it to bugzilla in a bit
<Amgine> \o/ more bugs.
<heatherw> not really a lot of choices there :)
<Amgine> 64 candidates in the first round in2009... <shakes head> most were awful.
<pfhayes> cool, well we'll add that to the list of bugs to fix in the beta :)
<pfhayes> thanks tonyC_, anything else?
<tonyC_> not really, just wanted to check with YuviPanda if hes seen this on wikipedia because i did when i built it from source
<YuviPanda> tonyC_: 'always'?
<YuviPanda> tonyC_: even after you hit back?
<tonyC_> yeah pretty much always
<YuviPanda> that didn't come up in our testing
<YuviPanda> tonyC_: will poke at it!
<YuviPanda> tonyC_: do you mind filing a bug?
<tonyC_> thanks! im filing the bugs now
<Amgine> Okay, while doing that, let's move on to you pfhayes?
<pfhayes> sure
<pfhayes> since last week, i worked on a few bugs and filed some new ones
<pfhayes> tony and i worked a bit on that 4.0 bug that made the phone unusable, which i believe got fixed on friday
<pfhayes> two of the new bugs i found were the one where listen in doesn't look disabled, which we already talked about
<pfhayes> and also, a bug where the Show/Hide buttons don't render properly on 4.0. I don't know if you've seen this one YuviPanda
<pfhayes> but essentially the buttons for Show/Hide only render as text, without a button background
<YuviPanda> pfhayes: after make?
<pfhayes> YuviPanda: i have run make, but it's not clear if we're using the same versions of MobileFrontend as in wikipedia. i'll investigate in the beta
<YuviPanda> pfhayes: okay
<Amgine> wait, what? MF should be the same accross WMF.
<pfhayes> Amgine: ideally. but at one point we had to start using an old version because there were localization problems in MobileFrontend, specifically with Show/Hide buttons.
<pfhayes> YuviPanda: has that been resolved, or are we still using the old version?
<YuviPanda> pfhayes: it has been, but we're still 'pinned' to a relatively older version (because, well, it works)
<pfhayes> cool, i'll try to get it in sync with the wikipedia version
<Amgine> I spoke with preilly yesterday, and he said local js is listed as "to be worked on soon"
<tonyC_> YuviPanda: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35530 and https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35529
<YuviPanda> tonyC_: thanks!
<Amgine> But we have working show/hide now for Wiktionary?
* pfhayes has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
<YuviPanda> Amgine: we'll find out with the beta soon enough :)
<YuviPanda> Amgine: i'm sure you'd be able to help publicize it with the wiktionary community for testing?
<Amgine> Yes, definitely. I expect major complaints immediately about i18n/l10n
<Amgine> (keeping in mind these are linguistic geeks)
<YuviPanda> Amgine: :)
<YuviPanda> indeed
<Amgine> tonyC_: last I'd heard on the collapsible front you were working on a way to make the translation tables disappear. What happened with that?
* pfhayes (~pfhayes@129-97-125-88.uwaterloo.ca) has joined #Wiktionary-mobile
<pfhayes> sorry about that folks, the school's wifi can be a bit spotty
<pfhayes> did i miss anything?
<tonyC_> Amgine: i got sidetracked by the bug that was fixed on friday, so nope :(
<Amgine> <YuviPanda> Amgine: we'll find out with the beta soon enough :)
<Amgine> <YuviPanda> Amgine: i'm sure you'd be able to help publicize it with the wiktionary community for testing?
<Amgine> <Amgine> Yes, definitely. I expect major complaints immediately about i18n/l10n
<Amgine> <Amgine> (keeping in mind these are linguistic geeks)
<Amgine> <YuviPanda> Amgine: :)
<Amgine> <YuviPanda> indeed
<Amgine> <Amgine> tonyC_: last I'd heard on the collapsible front you were working on a way to make the translation tables disappear. What happened with that?
<tonyC_> Amgine: sorry i got sidetracked on the bug fixed on friday
<tonyC_> oooh deja vu
<Amgine> Yep, tsokay. If the show/hide is working, then they should collapse.
<Amgine> Getting some interest already. Where are we going to direct people to provide feed back on the beta?
<Amgine> who is going to write up the Beta announcement?
<pfhayes> i am working on it, I can send out a draft before sending it to mobile-l if you guys want
<sheac> That'd be great
<tonyC_> cool
<pfhayes> also, I built a beta .apk and dale and tony tried it… we're having some problems with it that I'm going to investigate before I send it out
<YuviPanda> Amgine: should be able to help with figuring out places to publicize this in
<YuviPanda> mobile-l alone wouldn't be sufficient
<YuviPanda> it is relatively low traffic
<pfhayes> YuviPanda: who should I send it to?
<Amgine> <nods> We will also need the wiktionary-l (even lower traffic), meta, foundation-l, and some of the more populous wiktionaries.
<YuviPanda> ask Amgine, he'll know :)
<Amgine> Getting some responses already from some of the related channels, pfhayes, as you can see.
<pfhayes> thanks
<tonyC_> we could write a google docs survey or something to accumulate comments
<pfhayes> YuviPanda: you uploaded the beta .apk for WikipediaMobile to wikimedia… how can I do that for the Wiktionary app?
<YuviPanda> pfhayes: it doesn't have to be on dumps.wikimedia.org can be just any URL
<pfhayes> okay
<YuviPanda> though if you want it on dumps, poke tfinc
<YuviPanda> he has access
<pfhayes> not a big deal I suppose
<YuviPanda> but IMO not worth it.
<YuviPanda> yah
<Amgine> Actually, I think it *is* worth it.
<pfhayes> well, I just sent a draft to all of you. it'll be the same as that, only with a real link to the .apk instead of nothing :P
<Amgine> Mostly so that there is a standard location to look for future WMF mobile apps.
<pfhayes> once i get a working signed .apk I'll work on that
<pfhayes> the debug version works on my phone, but apparently after signing/aligning it fell apart a little bit. YuviPanda, have you ever seen anything like that?
<Amgine> <nods> I asked tfinc howto. We'll see what happens.
<YuviPanda> that's interesting.
<YuviPanda> pfhayes: no. did you uninstall/reinstall?
<YuviPanda> i guess you can not install 'over' the old one
<YuviPanda> with a different cert
<pfhayes> I don't have my cable with me so I asked tonyC_ and dlemieux to try. did you guys uninstall?
<dlemieux> I did
<dlemieux> Still no luck
<pfhayes> alright then
<tonyC_> yeah its not working
<Amgine> Did you shut off debug on the phone before installing?
<pfhayes> okay when I get home I can try to experiment a bit more… might delay the beta by a few hours but I'll try my best to get it out tonight
<tonyC_> i wasn't connected via usb, so debug should be off
<pfhayes> interesting
<pfhayes> i'll experiment a bit more and poke you guys if i have any more questions
<YuviPanda> pfhayes: you should also forward that email to tfinc
<pfhayes> but that's it from me
<pfhayes> YuviPanda: will do
<pfhayes> done
<pfhayes> tonyC_ sheac dlemieux Amgine YuviPanda : anything else?
<sheac> all clear here
<tonyC_> nope thats about it
<dlemieux> Nope
<Amgine> Reminder that Sumanah posted a link about GSOC, deadline April something
<pfhayes> actually, we need to figure out a time for our friday meeting, i think there has been some confusion over when the friday meetings are
<Amgine> They were 1800 UTC, but what works for everyone now?
<pfhayes> what is that in eastern and pacific time?
<sheac> Dale and I have been meeting at that time
<tonyC_> is that 1pm EST?
<sheac> it's 10AM PST and 1PM EST
<tonyC_> okay im fine with that
<Amgine> Eastern Daylight would put that at -4 now, right? so 2pm?
<dlemieux> Sounds good to me
<dlemieux> oh
<pfhayes> i think that's what caused the confusion
<pfhayes> EST != EDT
<pfhayes> so 2:00pm for tonyC_ , dlemieux , and pfhayes . 11:00am for sheac
<Amgine> and 2330 still for Yuvi
<dlemieux> ouch
<sheac> yup - still works for me
<pfhayes> YuviPanda: is that time okay for you?
<tonyC_> alright see you friday
<Amgine> YuviPanda: 2330 still work for you?
<YuviPanda> yup!
<pfhayes> YuviPanda: or should it be earlier?
<YuviPanda> 2330 sounds good
<pfhayes> okay great
<pfhayes> so we will meet again at that time
<Amgine> <nods>
<Amgine> And heatherw: Thumbs Up logo from the 2009 is right out. <winks>
<heatherw> heh
<pfhayes> great meeting everyone!
