Topic on Talk:Parsoid/Parser Unification/Media structure/FAQ

Rollout to group2 wikis in the coming weeks as stated in tech news this week, https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/2023/26

Hi. I just want to report that the tests that were supposed to ensure that nothing changes didn't work. I was doing fixes to templates that expected different structure from images (File:). Example fix for a template and see also removed CSS that was problematic. As you can see the template targeted a span element. Previously markup generated by File: didn't contain span and so the rule `.detail > span > span` targeted a span added to the template. After rollout the image was rendered with a span element and that span was wrongfully stretched to 100%.

Was this a wrongly constructed template and CSS? Sure, probably not forward thinking enough. But Wikimedia projects quite old. There were a lot of things that made sense 10 years ago.

I'm not saying you should abandon this deployment, but I am saying you should put it on hold. You should at least announce such changes, say when will the rollout be. I don't recall it being in Tech News, it should have been announced there. Needless to say, it was quite annoying that I had to quickly correct these templates without any notice. If there was any information, I wouldn't have to at least wonder where these problems came from.

That being said, I understand there's been a lot going on lately (Vector'22). And I know it is not feasible to render all pages in all projects.

Thank you for reporting issue and I'm really sorry for the disruption.

It was reported in tech news at the end of November 2022 that the change was going to be rolled out to group1 wikis in the coming weeks but got delayed until the new year because of the holidays, https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/2022/48

I've also opened a lot of discussions on talk pages highlighting changes that need to be made but that should also have served the purpose of alerting interface administrators of the changes to come, https://guc.toolforge.org/?by=date&user=Arlolra

As the FAQ says, we've sampled a 25k+ pages from various languages and projects to look for visual differences, but I'm not sure if plwikisource is in the set. I'll need verify that.

What's surprising though, is that these visual difference should have been apparent when Visual Editor was opened, prior to us rolling out the changes. Conceivably, someone could have noticed and fixed the issue long ago. Is this a popular template where it's hard to believe that is the case?

We won't roll out to group2 wikis until the few issues that surfaced during this latest stage are resolved, all those common pages get updated, and a new announcement for group2 wikis is made on tech news.

So, please consider the rollout effectively paused for the time being.

There were a few templates affected, most of them rarely used. I guess nobody noticed or thought it was because of V'22 ;). I myself was going to ignore it as maybe a temporary problem, but then noticed that wikisource got the new media structure. I think I was able to figured out what the problem is only because of our discussion on Phabricator about CSS for typeof attributes... So I guess the main problem was that it was not in a recent Tech news. You know, just before, or at least just after rollout. A rollout plan/schedule would also help :)

I'm also worried about plans to remove thumbinner etc classes. This will definitely be more disruptive.

The rollout plan, such as it is, is in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T314318, where notices and deployment dates have been documented.

The FAQ recognizes the issue with the thumbinner class, to be address in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T318433 but it suffices to say that we won't be removing the old styles until a migration plan is in place for templates and extensions still making use of them.

Again, I apologize for the delay between the tech news notification and the rollout. I will do better when it comes time for group2 wikis.

Looking at the database of pages used in visual diff testing, I see the enwikisource dbname (among other wikisource languages) and I see plwiki, but unfortunately not the intersection of project and language, plwikisource.

For what it's worth, here are notifications left on a gadget and common page for the Polish community, https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyskusja_MediaWiki:Common.js#Prepare_for_T314318 https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyskusja_MediaWiki:Gadget-Direct-link-to-Commons.js

Just a quick note to say that a lot of gadgets and MediaWiki:Common pages were recently updated in anticipation of the coming change, https://guc.toolforge.org/?by=date&user=ABreault+%28WMF%29

And a notice went out to wikitech-(l|ambassadors) mailing lists, https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/AN3A6R6AFBIJ6ASOKPO3U6C35NVVPPUA/ https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikitech-ambassadors@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/AN3A6R6AFBIJ6ASOKPO3U6C35NVVPPUA/

There are a few tasks left to resolve so we're still a few weeks away.

Noting that this will rollout to group2 wikis in the coming weeks as stated in tech news this week, https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/2023/26