Topic on Talk:Growth/Personalized first day/Newcomer tasks/Flow

The homepage forces participants to make empty edits

8
Sunpriat (talkcontribs)

It looks like the participants are starting to make empty edits to remove articles from the list of suggested articles! And because of such empty ones, admins begin to block them (forever)! We need an explanation right on the homepage about how to refuse uninteresting suggested articles (or those in which you tried, but could not do anything) in order to get a new set of suggested articles. e.g. w:ru:WP:Форум/Вниманию участников#Массовое добавление сдвоенных пробелов

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello Sunpirat, and thank you for reporting this.

Newcomers aren't forced to edit, on the contrary, they can choice which articles to edit. Maybe some users miss a way to exit the article? I agree that the editors don't provide such an option.

In this case, as your other colleagues, I see an user who only adds or removes one space every edit. They are also working on very different topics that it becomes very suspicious. My conclusion is that this user was clearly playing with the system, to artificially increase their number of edits. With or without Suggested edits, this kind of user would have found a different way to increase their number of edits. If I was facing the same situation at my wiki, I would have blocked them as well.

Sunpriat (talkcontribs)

You also bring forward the blocking. Different topics or not, but edits were made with the tag "Newcomer tasks" - so part of the responsibility lies with this tool. Something anchored this incorrect behavior and it's something in the tool. If you just close the article, it does not disappear from the list of suggestions - the "exit" simply does not work. If we can make the tool description shown to them better and prevent it, we should do it. Such use of the tool by other participants should be monitored and investigated. In the discussion, they said that they had already blocked other participants for this. We cannot lose participants because of this. In small projects, there are much fewer participants, but they encounter blocks not so much less often.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

You say "Something anchored this incorrect behavior and it's something in the tool." What could it be? If you see multiple accounts having the same behavior and being blocked when using Suggested edits, it can indeed be a problem inside the tool. But it can also be the reveal of a different pattern, such as a returning vandal, for instance (I often identify returning vandals at my wiki because they have an editing pattern; a request to Check Users often confirms it). I'm not saying that your are wrong, I'm just asking you if you have considered all possibilities. :)

I agree on the fact that you can't loose participants, but, for the only case you gave me a link to -- a clear vandalism -- I don't think this user is a great loss for your wiki.

If you have other cases of possible misuse, or other strange behaviors, please share them with us. They are very helpful for further investigation. I can't ask the community for now, as I go on vacation very soon, but if you can find some links I can check on when I return back (early September), it would be really, really helpful.

Sunpriat (talkcontribs)

"What could it be" - To be a vandal or to increase the number of edits - there are easier ways than to open pages one by one (in the order that the panel suggests) through the list of suggested ones. He had more than 12 edits per day (12 in total - the number of suggested articles in the set) and "empty" edits were mixed with edits with real small changes to the text. It looks like "I can make an empty edit if I don't see what I can fix here" and "then I will be able to look at a new article in which I will have a chance to do something" - this is still a constructive approach, since the participant still wants to make good corrections. (for example, if you want to fix something and there is a "special:" pages with a list of problematic articles - you open the articles in order from the list and simply do not make edits where you did not find the location of the problem (for example, in articles from the special:linter errors, the problem place is not always obvious), but here the participant can spend a lot of time on a large list, but he is offered a very small one of 12 elements and he knows only one way to remove articles from this set so that new ones appear in it.) The suggested article will disappear from the list and give a new set of articles. Without this, uninteresting articles remain in the list of 12, but the participant wants to see more other articles and there is no other way to "skip the article" or "change all 12 to completely different" for this. I think that the button "I've seen this article, I don't like it, I can't do anything in it, don't show it to me again" or the button "I looked at all the articles from the current set and didn't find what I can do in them, hide them all and give others" could prevent this. Or add a mention that in addition to a small list, there is a large one somewhere - to give more opportunities for choice (You become able to process more articles than a list can give you. You cannot (you don't know how, you are not offered further growth) go to a large list, or use this convenient list on a larger scale).

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I note that you ask this user to explain why they were making these edits. Their response is not giving us any clue: "I agree with the reason for the block and I am ready to promise not to make any more incorrect edits". It would worth exploring the case, by asking them why they made edits with only a space addition or removal. If the response is "because I wanted to exit the article", then we will be set. :)

When a user publishes a suggested edit, they see a list of edits, but also a link to see more suggestions, that sends them back to their Homepage. They can also just quit by clicking anywhere else. They are not forced to do more edits.

It seems that your lead is that the user hasn't found the link just below the suggested edits to return to the homepage and select a new set of tasks, am I right? This is what would correspond to the "I looked at all the articles from the current set and didn't find what I can do in them, hide them all and give others" action you mention. And it would mean that the user hasn't seen the "Посмотреть все предлагаемые правки" button, just below the short list.

I take your idea of reshuffling the set of suggested articles as something that should be considered. We had this idea but we haven't implemented, waiting for feedback. In full transparency, you are the first person to bring this to the table.

FYI, it is my last response until September. I'll read the developments of this case at my return! See you soon!

Sunpriat (talkcontribs)

What was said could be not so right lead. "12" this is shown in my list. This case may be due to the fact that after saving, a panel is displayed on the page offering another article. If you have opened "copyedits", then if you save without changes (put a space, erase the space) or refuse (by switching to reading) to make changes, this panel is not shown. But if you save the added space or line break, then the panel will be shown. This can probably be avoided if some button for calling such a panel will always be visible on the bottom right.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

We are considering to display the task suggestions after making an edit to users who haven't used the Homepage yet. Getting a way to show/hide this call to action is something we keep in mind there.

Reply to "The homepage forces participants to make empty edits"