Topic on Talk:Talk pages project/New topic/Flow

Feedback Request: "Hint" Prototype

Summary last edited by PPelberg (WMF) 01:28, 15 January 2022 2 years ago
  • T299256: Consider revising the language we use in the interface to refer to pinging
  • T299255: Add clearer helper text to New Discussion Tool's text fields
  • T299266: Introduce a way to return to the legacy new section experience on a one-off basis
  • T278190: Introduce Watchlist Expiry Functionality within Discussion Tools
  • T299267: More clearly relate the link that appears within the hint to Special:Preferences
PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)

A prototype of the "hint" that will soon appear within the New Discussion Tool[i] is ready for you all to try.

This prototype will enable you to experience what it could be like to click a New section or Add topic link on a desktop talk page at a project where the New Discussion Tool has been enabled by default.

Below is the information you will need to:

  1. Share feedback about the prototype and
  2. Try the prototype

If any questions come up as you are attempting to try the prototype, please post them here.


i. The "hint" within the New Discussion Tool is designed to make Senior Contributors, who are using the New Discussion Tool for the first time, how they can switch back to the legacy &action=edit&section=new experience.

PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)

1. Sharing Feedback

Once you have tried the prototype and you are ready to share what you think of it, please add a new topic to this talk page by doing the following:

  1. "Start a new topic" on this talk page
  2. Name this new topic: "Hint Prototype Feedback: YOUR USERNAME"
  3. Write your answers to these questions:
    1. What did you find unexpected about how the prototype looks and functions?
    2. What do you appreciate about the prototype?
    3. What do you wish was different about the prototype
PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Trying the prototype

Note: while performing the steps below, imagine you are someone who is used to using the legacy &action=edit&section=new experience.

  1. On a desktop / laptop computer, visit:
  2. Create an account by clicking the Create account link. Note: this is a test wiki so you will not be able to log in using the same username you use on other projects.
  3. Visit a talk page (e.g. Talk:The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy)
  4. Click the Add topic link that appears at the top of the talk page
  5. Notice the New Discussion Tool opens
  6. Read and explore the gray box that appears above the New Discussion Tool (the gray box begins with the following text: "A new way to start topics is here...")
Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Pinging people who might be interested: Firestar464, Pelagic, Timboliu, Matěj Suchánek, Patrik L., Jc86035, Dvorapa, InsaneHacker, Krenair, TheDJ, J. N. Squire, Samat, Ad Huikeshoven, Stryn, Fuzheado, RonnieV, Barkeep49, Iniquity, Gnom, Gryllida, Pelagic, Geraki, Jules78120, ZI Jony, Arthur Rubin, Sophivorus, Wladek92, Kaartic, Dyolf77 (WMF), Lofhi, Aram, Apokrif, Nw520, Sunny00217, Diego Moya, Martin, Taiwania Justo, Omotecho, Ottawahitech, FNDE, Rijvirajib, ProcrastinatingReader, Majavah, Scannnovel, Jncwtopac, RoySmith, Mys 721tx, Interstellarity

I think that's as many people as it will let me ping in one message.  :-) (talkcontribs)

Thanks for pinging me, Whatamidoing (WMF) :

I am not sure I want to participate as a guinea pig here. I have participated in such trials in the past just to be ridiculed by other users for trying, and a lot of work went down the drain. How "beta" is this new addition? The trial I participated in years ago was "alpha", at best.

I have been trying out the version of the ''reply tool' on wikiquote, and it looks vastly different than what i am using here. I view myself mainly as a content-builder and prefer to be in control of my volunteer time.Not sure I am making sense?

(still no preview here?) (talkcontribs)

Great| I just spent valuable time trying to contribute here, but the system has eaten up my contribution, sigh... (talkcontribs)

why am I not logged in? I came because I was pinged?

Are all my comments automatically logged-out? Is it because my comments are considered disrUptive? Or is it simply that I did not notice during my first cOntribution that I was not logged in (not sure why this would happen)

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Being logged out usually means that something's unhappy with the cookies in your web browser.

Barkeep49 (talkcontribs)

Sorry I am not clear @Whatamidoing (WMF) what has changed. I've already been using the ability to add a new topic with the discussion tool.

Firestar464 (talkcontribs)

There's an "Advanced" dropdown below the input box. I didn't notice it at first- is anyone else having the same problem?

Diego Moya (talkcontribs)

Same here, I only noticed it after switching to Visual mode. When in Source, the Preview section stands in the way.

Now that we're at it, noticing the license disclaimer is even worse! I've only realized that it exists while reviewing the interface in detail for writing this comment. This notice is supposed to be HIGHLY visible, as content submitted to talk pages is licensed under open-source licenses, which is unusual and quite unexpected by newcomers.

This post was hidden by Firestar464 (history)
Geraki (talkcontribs)

To my understanding the only thing added is the hint on how to switch back to the old method (discussiontools-newtopic-legacy-hint). It's ok, obviously it will be removed after some years (when the discussiontools will be default for long time and part of the core).

Unfortunately I press the X and it does not close!

PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Firestar464 (talkcontribs)

Oh, that? Looks good to me.

Ad Huikeshoven (talkcontribs)

I have seen the new discussion tool before. There is a gray box above. At first attempt I ignored the gray box, and entered a new discussion with a title, and saved that one. Upon replying I saw the comment by @Geraki right above, and looked again. The text is clear, once you have read it.

Diego Moya (talkcontribs)

I think I didn't notice the gray box on my first test, I guess it triggered my banner blindness, developed after decades of ignoring ads online.

I suppose it's a good thing that it is so discrete and easy to ignore, given that the banner reappears after reloading the page even if I have dismissed it with the X button.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

It's meant to go away when you dismiss it, but for testing purposes, it's kind of handy to have it stick around.

Scann (talkcontribs)

I'm a big fan of this tool since it has been deployed, but I don't think this gray box is really at all that useful. First, the message appears after someone has already pressed the button that says "Add topic", which is self-evident that that's the way in which you do exactly what the message in the gray box is saying. If you're there is because you already know how to add a topic, therefore the box is unnecessary. However, it would be useful to have a similar message when someone ends up in the Discussion page -- the same way that when you're a new user you get all those blue dots that point you at "this is how you cite", "this is how you add a category", etc. So, to me, it should be pointed out with those blue dots and with that pop-up message, not this message.

I'm also in favor of reducing the amount of instructions & boxes & text that people have to navigate through in the interface. As a suggestion, for example, the warning that appears with "Please provide a title", could be simplified by adding at as a sample text in the title box itself rather than a warning below the title box. "Description" in the text box might not be very indicative either of what you have to do there (granted, a description, but it could be more specific: "Please provide a description of the issues with this article").

Second, "ping to others"... does it make sense anymore? Ping is very much a computer term, I think that people tag people, they don't ping people anymore, so for the vast majority of the world this might not be a common term. I'd review that.

And last, I agree with the comment someone made about the need to make the license terms more explicit and not only the ToS. It doesn't add that much and the text is so small anyways that it doesn't bother visually.

I hope this is useful, feel free to ignore it if it is not. And thanks for pinging me! Appreciate it!

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

This was all useful, Scann. Thank you.

The gray box exists because we have a problem to solve. Imagine that you have clicked on the "Add topic" buttons hundreds of times, but today, when you click on it, the "Add topic" button does something different. Perhaps it is not merely different, but in your opinion, it seems worse. The purpose of the gray box is to make it easy for you to get back to the "normal" way – the way it worked before this new thing happened.

The Editing team has been thinking about the word mention for pinging/tagging. What do you think of that idea?

Scann (talkcontribs)

Ahhh now I understand. But the idea is that eventually that will be deprecated, right? For a new user, it might be end up being redundant.

"Mention" to me sounds very much like the Twitter mentions. Of course Twitter is part of social media but probably it's better to have the closest word that resembles to whatever they're using on Instagram + TikTok. Ultimately the biggest challenge there is also to use something that translates well in all the languages Wikipedia has (I know "tag" translates well in Spanish, not so much "mention"). Hope that's useful!

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I don't know what the team's current thinking is, but at various points they have talked about turning off the gray box in the months-to-a-year range. It should be long enough that an occasional editor who is off wiki for a while (e.g., holiday, busy at school or work, broken laptop) still has a chance to see it, but not forever. If you're gone for a year or two, you would probably assume that some things will change during that time.

I don't know what language is popular on Instagram or TikTok. I believe it's normal for translators to use the best meaning, rather than literal translations.

PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)

This was all useful, Scann. Thank you.

+1! This input is absolutely useful, @Scann. I appreciate you taking the time to share this feedback with us.

In response, I've created two tickets for the new issues I understood you to be raising. Can you please review them and comment here or on the tickets if I've interpreted what you've said in ways you did not mean?

Tickets for issues:

  • T299256: Consider revising the language we use in the interface to refer to pinging
  • T299255: Add clearer helper text to New Discussion Tool's text fields
Scann (talkcontribs)

Thanks! Looks good to me. I just made a small edit because I think the text I suggested ended up accidentally in the wrong column on the table.