Topic on Talk:JADE/Flow

Judgments and discussions are rooted at wiki entities. We need more discussion before committing to using Structured Discussions, it's not the perfect fit. Having ORES and JADE entities available when reading or editing these threads would be great.

See Phab:T153147 for the relevant task.

Structured Discussion provides a well supported, wiki-integrated environment in which we can hold threaded discussions. In Judgments, Endorsements, and Preference, I described a JADE workflow that involved a "discussion post" between two users. I'm imagining that we can mint a Structured Discussion board as needed for discussions about judgments. These will help users use a central location to negotiate whether or not an edit was damaging or likely to have been saved in good-faith -- or if an article is C-class or B-class.

My two big questions are (1) can we mint a new Structured Discussion board for an arbitrary wiki entity and (2) will people find having a whole Structured Discussion board for discussing Judgments about a wiki entity intuitive?

Put me down as someone who doesn't find Flow intuitive or user friendly.

All lab studies we have run have suggested that people find Structured Discussion much more user friendly and intuitive than, for example, talk pages. The big benefits seem to be auto-threading, "reply" buttons that work, and not needing to manage signatures.

I can certainly see how Structured Discussion doesn't have explicit functionality for many talk page hacks we've gotten used to, but in this case, I think we are actually targeting threaded discussion -- something that Structured Discussion does very well.

My experience was that it was hard to search a Flow talk page, has that changed?

@Ebernhardson brought up one consideration, that we need to attach the Flow board to an existing wiki page. Since Flow is only enabled on some wikis, it's probably impossible to have this page be on the wiki where the artifact lives. We would have to make a strange structure like, "mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:JADE/Judgments/enwiki/", and maybe even have another directory level to group into hundreds of posts or so.

I'm not sure I understand the groupings, but I think that having all JADE discussions focused on a single wiki could work just fine. In the end, I imagine, we'll have topic Ids/URLs that people can be directed to through any UI that shows JADE stuff.

One more thing I was thinking... It would be really cool if our MediaWiki integration allowed judgement information to be rendered as part of a Flow topic/board page.

At the very least, it has to be possible to navigate from a topic to the judgment.

Maybe, when a topic is first created, it contains an introductory template like "{{JADE/Judgment | jid = 123}}" which keeps the glue on-wiki and makes it easy to refine collaboratively. This could in turn be wrapped in a div, making it easy to find and hide when displaying the topic from places this info would be redundant, such as the JADE UI.

I'm suddenly doubtful about one of our assumptions: are discussion threads only useful on a judgment, or would we also want to attach to a score? Consensus discussion would make the most sense at the score- or wiki-entity-level, perhaps?

Scores change when we deploy new models. I feel like the proposals for attaching a judgement to a score do not account for this fact. E.g. false-positives turn to true-negatives as we refine a model. Further, we'll want judgments for scores that don't exist yet. So what would we do in that circumstance? I think it would make much more sense to attach judgements to wiki-entities and merely present the current score (if available) in the UI for reflection & discussion.

+1 let's do that.

So then, discussions always begin with a judgment comment, or can they begin at a wiki entity?

Wiki entity IMO. We should have a nice way to attach a historical score to a discussion. E.g. {{subst:ores|revision|2131211|damaging}}