Talk:Localisation statistics

Problems

I want to help updating the localisation statistics, but when I run language/transstat.php, I've got two problems:

• When the table is created, I can't scroll to the top of the table, I stay below the table.
• Language names aren't rendering well (UTF-8?)

Thank you, SPQRobin 12:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

The default output of the transstat.php is to output the details onto the screen. You can redirect the output to another file using redirection such as php transstat.php > trans.txt, then use the Unicode enabled text editor to open the output file and copy / paste into the stats page. Hope this can help you. :) Shinjiman 00:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

My first problem was resolved with copying it to another file. But about Unicode, I still couldn't view the characters correctly. I copied it to here, and suddenly I saw I could view it here (on a wiki page) correctly. Strange, but it works :-) SPQRobin 17:20, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Duplicated language code

"yue" and "zh-yue" is the same thing. -- Tomchiukc 15:58, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, we know, but "yue" is a kind of redirect to "zh-yue". This allows users to use "zh-yue" if they select "yue". Look at MessagesZh_yue.php where you can see $fallback = 'yue'; this means it uses all messages from "yue". SPQRobin 18:57, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

See Betawiki for more statistics without duplicated languages... Siebrand 11:55, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

It is in the another way, i.e. the "zh-yue" will redirects to "yue", but not "yue" redirects to "zh-yue". Shinjiman 15:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Picard pcd

bojour, can you put pcd (picard) in the statistics;

adé, Geoleplubo — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geoleplubo (talk • contribs)

Vepsian language (Vepsän, vep)

Please include vep (Vepsian language) in these statistics.

Thank You, Igor Brodsky (Игорь Бродский) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.112.22.210 (talk • contribs)

How many langages are listed?

It could be nice to add that number somewhere. --almaghi 23:23, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

en-GB and en-CA - notes

I've seen quite a few problems raised at the En.Wikipedia villagepumps, regarding the en/en-GB/en-CA pages going out of sync. Ie. an admin updates one mediawiki message, but forgets to update the en-GB and en-CA messages. Or a deeper Mediawiki-level issue.

Eg. w:Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 104#Three different minor edit messages, and w:Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 115#Erroneous message on Watchlist, and w:Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 116#Font changed in the last 2 months, and many older. Also at the w:Help Desk.

w:Help:Preferences currently says "Many messages have been customized at the English Wikipedia but usually only for the default "en - English". It is therefore not recommended to select "en-GB - British English" or "en-CA - Canadian English"." I've seen that same advice given numerous times.

I asked on IRC: "Are there any *actual* uses of/for the en-GB and en-CA settings, anywhere in Wikimedia? (The only variable words I can think of, that might crop up in our interfaces, are "centre, color, gray, organisation"). It's always seemed like a good way for tripling the amount of work that has to be done in keeping things updated... Couldn't we just apply WP:ENGVAR, and remove those 2 options entirely?"

I was helpfully pointed towards: https://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki%2Fcore.git/26bc9ba9c8bc436c8ef9fda665f0f87470e3044d/languages%2Fmessages%2FMessagesEn_gb.php and https://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki%2Fcore.git/26bc9ba9c8bc436c8ef9fda665f0f87470e3044d/languages%2Fmessages%2FMessagesEn_ca.php (55 and 20 changes, respectively) which lists the changes (just in core). The words "categorised, colour, licence, metre, kilometre, programme, digitise, cancelled, centre" (plus variations) seem to be the main words that are different. Plus a couple of that/which switches.

Also https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/72053/ (New language variant 'en-x-piglatin' for easier variant testing) is related.

I still tentatively believe that the Cons outweigh the Pros, and we should remove these options; However, I know very little about the issues involved, beyond what I've noted here, so I'll just leave these notes for future contemplation. Oh, and this seems to be the only logical place to discuss it, as it's not really mentioned anywhere else. –Quiddity (talk) 22:20, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

(Warning: this is my personal opinion!) I believe the problems that EN has with en-gb, en-ca, etc are multiplied many fold for the languages which actually *need* to use variants (sr, pt, es, zh, etc). We English-speakers have the luxury of ignoring these issues, but the rest of the world does not. In my personal opinion, it's worth keeping en-GB etc and *making it work* because that effort is repaid for all the users in the rest of the world. Ie: if we're having troubles keeping variants in sync, so is everyone else in the world! Can we fix the root cause? We're never likely to encounter and fix these issues if we never see them. Cscott (talk) 03:10, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

@Cscott: That's an excellent point, and exactly what I was hoping to learn (so that I can quote/point to it when this issue comes up in the future). Thanks.

Regarding basic solutions, I would guess that Documentation and Automatic-Reminders are the 2 main methods.

Beyond the 2 git links that track core changes, are there any automated ways to keep track of which pages need to be kept in line, when changes are made to the en-us versions?

The simple method is a plain search, but changes to the related en-us pages won't show up for that... I'm thinking: an edit to a page that has language-variant alternatives, should trigger an alert (perhaps just an w:WP:Editnotice) that the admin should remember to check/update the other language-variant pages, too.

If an Automatic-Reminder is not currently possible, then at the minimum we need better Documentation, and hopefully that can be automated somehow? Something like: A table of entries, listing all the en/en-gb/en-ca pages, and their last update time.

Apologies for any incorrect terminology, or ludicrous suggestions. Hope that helps trigger an idea or two, at least :) –Quiddity (talk) 08:27, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

FYI, on zhwiki, zh interface message changes are synced to zh-hans/hant/cn/hk/mo/my/sg/tw automatically by my bot [1]. However I can't do the same for English currently, because there's no existing translator for en-gb text yet. Liangent (talk) 12:28, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Where is the fallback language(s) set?

For example, in the row for ‘nan’, the fallback is shown as ‘cdo, zh-hant’. Where exactly is this set (and how/who can change this)? – Kaihsu (talk) 03:05, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Ah, https://doc.wikimedia.org/mediawiki-core/master/php/html/MessagesNan_8php_source.html – Kaihsu (talk) 03:13, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Fallback suggestions

Please guide me I'd like to suggest some fallback suggestions (e.g. es for cat) but I don't see where to do that. Can anyone help? Thanks. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:35, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

You first need sources (http://ethnologue.com is enough in simple cases), then consensus at least at the relevant portal. For such a politicised locale as Catalan, however, more discussion would be needed in bigger wikis (including Wikipedia). When sources and consensus are found, file a request. --Nemo 06:25, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

@Nemo bis: This is still very confusing: how is Ethnologue a source? Where on Wikipedia would I post about fallback languages? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 14:58, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but if you don't understand the instructions above I recommend that you avoid intervening in such a complex topic. --Nemo 15:30, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

@Nemo bis: I've used Ethnologue before as a source I just don't see any particular forum on Wikipedia(s) for discussing fallback languages, especially in those original languages--I don't know enough Catalan to make this suggestion in that language. Is there a certain place on an edition of Wikipedia that is best for discussing this? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:10, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

@Koavf: Probably try to post in village pump of the language's Wikipedia in English? Most of the time someone who can also read English on that Wikipedia will respond, and maybe trying to ask for a translation of your message would work too.C933103 (talk) 21:26, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

@Nemo bis: What exactly do I need to fill in to the phab if I want to suggest having lzh and yue fallback to zh-hant, zh-hans? Also, I think the exclusion list need updated, as it have zh-yue, zh-min-nan, be-x-old in the list, but the actual list now include yue, nan, be-tarask C933103 (talk) 17:04, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

@C933103:

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T125373
Resolved

1. For lzh to zh-hant: see above
2. Kindly, I doubt whether same action is also needed for yue, as @Shinjiman: said oppose comment on translatewiki.net
3. why still including be-x-old and others, we should kill them everywhere during T21986.

--Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:08, 10 August 2016 (UTC)