I'm currently translating "Borders Railway" from English to Japanese and am having trouble with the references. For some reason, references are getting mixed up (a different reference appears instead of what should apear) and even if I fix them (by copying from the English section), it does not get saved when I close Content Translation (the text, meanwhile is saved properly). Could someone please help out with this?
Talk:Content translation
Thanks for the feedback, @YTRK.
References are technically more complex to handle than what they look in the surface. Normally templates are used to structure the information of references, and those templates are defined independently by each Wikipedia community in each language. Content Translation has to find the equivalent templates, figure out the corresponding parameters to copy the information over and add those in the equivalent position of the translated paragraph.
Can you point to a specific paragraph or sentence where the problem occurs in the "Borders Railway" article? In this way I can create a specific sample for engineers to continue the investigation.
Thanks!
Thank you for replying.
The "(REF)" part is where the problem is occuring. (the number is the number shown on the translating screen)
#background#Campaign to revive Borders rail (Japanese title "再開業に向けた運動"), third paragraph, first sentense (original starting with "A number of blockages"):
エディンバラ～ゴアブリッジ間の19kmでは、合計4か所の障害が指摘された。(REF24) エディンバラ・シティ・バイパスとの交点では、計画時に地元の自治体が陳情を行ったのにもかかわらず運輸省に押し切られてしまい、道路が旧線跡を200mの長さにわたって斜めに横切っていた。(REF24)(ref25) エスクバンク～ゴアブリッジ間ではA7道路の改良によって2か所で干渉が起きており、ゴアブリッジでは住宅街となってしまった部分が1か所あった。(REF26)(ref27)
These references are both supposed to be ref20, the first of the four references placed in a row at the end of the previous paragraph. REF24 shows the same content (Drysdale, Robert (8–21 January 2014). "The railway arriving in 2015". RAIL. No. 739. p. 26.) (but the number is different) and the content of REF26 cannot be seen due to it saying "reference is generated by another template and can only be seen on source code".
#background#Edinburgh Crossrail (Japanese title "エディンバラ・クロスレール"), first paragraph, second and third sentenses
駅の新設と本数の大幅増に伴う線路強化1.8kmで合わせて1000万ポンドの費用がかかったという。(REF24) スコットレールによれば、民営化（英語版）以降初の新駅を伴う再開業であり、1964年9月の4駅（ポートベロ旧駅（英語版）を含む）同時閉鎖以来のエディンバラ東部での駅の営業であるという。(REF24)
These two are suppposed to be a totaly new reference (Haigh, Philip (12–25 June 2002). "Waverley route trains return as £10m Crossrail opens". RAIL. No. 437. p. 10.) yet somehow REF24 appears (its content is also that of REF24).
Tried to fix it again and closed then opened it. I got patial results:
REF26 is properly merged...with REF24. I don't know if this is good or not. The rest is unchanged (apart from references 27 and above decending one number).
Also, when I had finished with the REF24s & 26 in "campaign..." and was just before fixing REF24s in "Edinburgh..." (the ones that are supposed to have completely different contents), the latter REF24s had turned into another number (34 or something I think) (It should have changed to ref20 along with the first group of REF24s) with the content unchanged. Although the two groups have the content and the number (24) in common, the link between the two is not so secure as it would be expected.
I hope this helps.
Starting this morning, when I tried to translate some company pages like Koch Media or Starbreeze Studios from English to Turkish, It didn't load infoboxes. That didn't occur yesterday.
Thanks for the feedback, @Meka33.
Infoboxes are a particular type of template. Although they may seem similar in the surface, there are many types so it is possible that some are supported and others are not.
Templates are independently defined in each wiki. Thus, Content Translation has to find the equivalent templates in Wikidata, figure out the corresponding parameters based on the template metadata (Şablon belgelemesini düzenle) to copy the information over and add those in the equivalent position of the translated paragraph.
In this case, for the Infobox company template the problem seems to be that the template is not shown in the source article in Content Translaiton. The tool skips some administrative templates, but this one is expected to be shown. I created a ticket to capture the issue and investigate further.
Thanks.!
The question is in the heading. I have translated a few articles and I cannot publish them right away (I guess I don't have permission to do this yet). So when will these translations become public?
Thanks for the feedback, @O.gruzins.
The ability to publish does not depend on time. These are the most common reasons you may not be able to publish and what can it be done in each case:
- Unmodified contents. Publishing is prevented when the initial machine translation is not edited enough based in certain limits. If your translation does not consist mostly (99% or more) of just machine translation or have more than 50 paragraphs with more than 85% of unmodified contents, you should be able to publish. For some languages such as Indonesian, Telugu and Assamese, the threshold for the overall translation has been adjusted to 70% instead of 99%.
- Community edit filters. Each community can define a set of automatic edit filters. These apply to all contents created on that specific wiki, including those created with Content Translation. These filters are based on rules defined by editors of a particular Wikipedia. They are defined to prevent vandalism, but they may result in some false positives and prevent valid contributions by accident. You can report issues with edit filters in the corresponding discussion forums of the community. Similarly, if your user is blocked for creating new articles, you won't be allowed to do so either using Content Translation.
- Additional community limitations. Some communities like English Wikipedia have limited the publication of articles with Content translation to those users with more than 500 edits on English Wikipedia. You can find more details about this restriction and some alternatives you can consider.
- Bugs in Content translation. The tool can fail to publish for different reasons. Given the diversity of wiki contents, some issues could happen when processing a particular type of content. Maybe some of the different software components the tool integrates has changed or is unavailable, and breaks some part of the process.
We can only fix an issue if we understand where it is coming from. For that investigation it is very useful to know the article and languages you were trying to translate, any warning or error messages shown by the tool (including those shown in the Javascript console), and any other relevant aspect of your system.
Thanks!
I have a strange problem. I'm translating an article from English to Indonesian. then suddenly a bug occurs and the results of my work suddenly disappear. I tried for the second time and the results were the same. please fix this bug problem ... when I will edit the cell also suddenly the writing in the cell disappears. as well as in titles, paragraphs, etc. please fix it
I've just finished translating "Nancy Drew" from English to Vietnamese.
But everytime I click on "Publish" (Vietnamese: Đăng), it changes to "Publishing..." (Vietnamese: Đang xuất bản...) and nothing goes on.
It's the first time this trouble encountered. I've already translated and published 2 articles without any problems.
Please help me to solve it
I have a peculiar problem. Someone has started translating an article from English to Kannada. But that user has stopped the translations after doing almost 50% of the work. If I try to translate the same article, it does not allow me to do so. I don't get the half done article so that I can continue from there. I want an option where multiple users (editors) will be able to translate simultaneously, ie, different editors translating different parts of the article AND/OR an option where another user (editor) can continue from where the other user has left.
I demand to same things. Thanks Pavanaja.
Hello Pavanaja !!!
Could you please tell me which article you tried to translate because I would like to follow up for learning.
(Original in Japanese)
私も学習のため追試をしてみたいのでどの記事を翻訳しようとしたのか教えていただけませんか。
HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 16:46, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
This one - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome_coronavirus_2. I am trying to translate into Kannada. It says it is being translated by Dhanalakshmi K T. It seems I can translate only if the other user deletes the half done translation.
16:04, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
This is a bug report.
This is the same case which I reported earlier. I will report again because it is clearly visible.
I tried to create ja: Putlana Nature Reserve translating fr: Réserve_naturelle_de_Poutorana, I was warned by edit filter #13 and I could not publish it. Since this warning was displayed for the first template, I published the text after removing the template. It is first editon . After publishing, I add the same template. It is the second edition . The difference shows the template in question and the default.
By the way, writing this report, I noticed that the edit filter will not work before publishing, if the toot works properly, .
When I reported last time, I thought it was a problem of cooperation with the filter function.
However, if the tool works properly, the filter function should not work at the editing stage.
Please investigate and fix it.
16:04, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
HaussmannSaintLazare, tu pourrais nous traduire cette contribution de 16h04 en français si c'est ta langue ?
Merci
16:08, 17 March 2020 (UTC) (addition) Sorry. Destination article is ja:プトラナ自然保護区 not ja: Putlana Nature Reserve
16:08, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
16:39, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
Merci, Tubamirum !!!
En raison de votre demande, j'ai traduit le texte anglais en français avec la traduction GOOGLE.
Je ne comprenais pas le français, j'ai donc fait une traduction inverse et vérifié.
Je ne pense pas qu'il y ait une grosse erreur, mais veuillez signaler tout point déroutant.
Ceci est un rapport de bogue.
C'est le même cas que j'ai signalé plus tôt. Je ferai de nouveau rapport car il est clairement visible.
J'ai essayé de créer en traduisant , j'ai été averti par le filtre d'édition # 13 et je n'ai pas pu le publier. Étant donné que cet avertissement s'est affiché pour le premier modèle, j'ai publié le texte après avoir supprimé le modèle. C'est la première édition . Après la publication, j'ajoute le même modèle. Il s'agit de la deuxième édition . La différence montre le modèle en question et le modèle par défaut.
Au fait, en écrivant ce rapport, j'ai remarqué que le filtre d'édition ne fonctionnera pas avant la publication, si le toot fonctionne correctement,.
Lorsque j'ai signalé la dernière fois, je pensais que c'était un problème de coopération avec la fonction de filtre.
Cependant, si l'outil fonctionne correctement, la fonction de filtrage ne devrait pas fonctionner au stade de l'édition.
Veuillez enquêter et corriger.
HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 16:39, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
Sorry, I thought when viewing your ID (HaussmannSaintLazare) that you are french !
Thank you for your translation. Unfortunatly, it doesn't help me. In the french wiki's discussions, I reported this bug to a Mediawiki specialist called Trizek who will investigate.
Tubamirum (talk) 18:01, 17 March 2020 (UTC) (french Wiki contributor)
17:24, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
Thank you. Tubamirum !!!
I understand why you requested me to write in French.
By the way, I want to read the french wiki's discussions. So, please write the links to them. Thank you !!!
17:24, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
Hi @HaussmannSaintLazare,
Edit filters are defined by each Wikipedia community, and they affect all kinds of content, not only pages created with Content Translation. You can check the code for edit filter #13 on French Wikipedia. You may consider reporting issues with the filter in this talk page on French Wikipedia.
Thanks!
Hello Pginer-WMF !!!
First, I point out the obvious mistake. My translation is not from English to French, but from English to Japanese.
I first contacted the Japanese edit filter developer, because I thought it as a problem with edit filter # 13.
But now I am convinced that this is a MediaWiki issue, not an edit filter issue. That is because this edit filter works for the whole article, but the error message is for a paragraph.
The error can be caused by MediaWiki's edit filter function.
But it is definitely a MediaWiki issue anyway.
This error occurs occasionally.
In particular, it seems to occur when editing a paragraph with a template or links.
I feel that it occurs when I swap the words, because Japanese has a different word order from English, and GOOGLE translation often makes a strange order, .
Pginer-WMF probably doesn't understand Japanese. However, even if it is a random edit that has no meaning in Japanese, it will not bother other users unless it is published, so I would like you to try it and reproduce it.
Thank you !!!
(Original in Japanese)
Hello Pginer-WMF !!!
まず、明らかな間違いを指摘しておくと、私の翻訳は英語版からフランス語版への翻訳ではなく、英語版から日本語版への翻訳です。
私も最初は編集フィルター#13の問題だと考えて、日本語版の編集フィルター開発者に連絡しました。
しかし、その後この問題はMediaWikiの問題であり、編集フィルターの問題ではないと確信しています。
それは、この編集フィルターが記事全体に対して働くものであるのに、エラーメッセージはパラグラフに対して出るからです。
あるいは、エラーを起こしているのはMediaWikiの編集フィルター機能なのかもしれません。
しかし、いずれにせよMediaWikiの問題であることは間違いありません。
このエラーは比較的頻発しています。
特に、テンプレートやリンクのあるパラグラフを編集した時に起きるようです。
日本語は英語と語順が異なる上、GOOGLE翻訳でもおかしな順番になることが多いので、それを入れ替えた時に発生しているように感じています。
Pginer-WMFさんはおそらく日本語を理解できないのでしょう。しかし、日本語として意味のないでたらめな編集であっても公開しなければ他の利用者に迷惑をかけることはないので、試してみて再現していただきたいと思います。
Thank you !!!
HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 17:25, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
Sorry it was from French to Japanese not English to Japanese.
it is not changed that edit filter #13 is in ja.wikipedia.
HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 17:31, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
Sorry again.
Apparently in the first report, I have mistaken the GOOGLE translation operation and it made difficult to understand. Once again, I wrote. From the same fr:Réserve naturelle de Poutorana, I created ja:プトラナ自然保護区 and en:Draft:Poutorana nature reserve. The error occurred in ja:プトラナ自然保護区. There did not occur the error in en:Draft:Poutorana nature reserve. The English version seems to be less error-prone because machine translation cannot be used.
度々すみません。どうも最初の報告でGOOGLE翻訳の操作を間違えて分かりにくくなってしまったようです。もう一度説明すると、同じfr:Réserve naturelle de Poutoranaを元にしてja:プトラナ自然保護区とen:Draft:Poutorana nature reserveを作成しています。このうちエラーを起こしたのは、ja:プトラナ自然保護区のほうでen:Draft:Poutorana nature reserveのほうはエラーを起こしていません。英語版は機械翻訳が使えないためかエラーが起きにくいように思います。
HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 17:49, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I can't load saved translation and i can't start to new translation. I try from Turkish and English versions but repeated to same problem.
I am only a beginner and so I cannot answer your questions.
However, please write down what article you specifically translated, as it may help others reproduce the symptoms.
HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 16:38, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
(Original in Japanese)
私も初心者なので、あなたの質問にお答えすることはできません。
ただ、具体的にどの記事を翻訳しようしたのか書いていただくと、他の方が症状を再現する手助けになるかもしれないので、書いてください。
HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 16:38, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
09:45, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
This is not a bug report but a Proposal .
The content translation tool warns us if there are problems in the created documents. If the tool judge that the problem is significant, the tool prevents us from publishing.
However, as previously I reported, the problem detection function of the tool contains some bugs, and there may be no problems.
Also, the tool itself may have created some problems due to its bug.
Looking at the current state of the developers, it is difficult to fix all bugs before the next major revision.
Therefore, I will maek a proposal.
Instead of prohibiting publication, the tool should alway enable publication by translators' decision and add next tag.
"This article has been published, leaving the warnings and problems that the content translation tool pointed out. It should be noted that these warnings and problems might have been generated by the bug of content translation tool."
In addition, if the propsal location is wrong, please tell me the correct location.
09:45, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
This post was hidden by HaussmannSaintLazare (history)
Thanks for the feedback, @HaussmannSaintLazare.
The limits on machine translation were defined to find a balance to prevent lightly edited machine translation that causes problems to reviewers while not affecting users that make good quality translations. They only apply when the unmodified machine translation for the whole document is 99% or higher, or when there is a significant number of paragraphs with more than 85% of unmodified contents. We are open to adjust them in general or for particular languages, we are also plan to allow skipping the limits when publishing to the user namespace.
On the issue you mentioned earlier, the cause seemed to be an edit filter. Those are not defined by Content Translation. Those are general filters that each community defines, and they are applied to all the contents created (with Content Translation or without it).
(English)
Hello Pginer-WMF !!!
Thank you for your response.
Due to the circumstances described in mw:User talk:Pginer-WMF, it became slow to notice your reply.
I am pleased that you are considering the restrictions on publishing (posting).
However, I am a little worried about the range of “we”. This is because technicians often incorporate functions that users consider "inconvenient" and "unnecessary", based on their belief that they are "convenient" and "necessary."
To say my request, I would like you to relax the restrictions not only when publishing on a personal user page but also when publishing in DRAFT space.
Thank you !!!
HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 16:12, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
(Original in Japanese)
Hello Pginer-WMF !!!
ご回答いただきありがとうございます。
mw:User talk:Pginer-WMFに書いたような事情であなたのお返事に気づくのが遅くなりました。
あなた方が公開（投稿）の制限について検討しておられるとのことで喜んでいます。
ただ、少し気になるのは「we」というのが、どのような範囲であるかです。というのは、技術者は自分の「便利」「必要」という思い込みで、利用者が「不便」「不必要」と思う機能を組み込んでしまうことがよくあるからです。
一つだけ要望しておくと、個人の利用者ページに公開する時だけではなくDRAFT空間に公開する時にも制限を緩和していただきたいと思います。
Thank you !!!
HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 16:12, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
(Original in Japanese)
Hello Pginer-WMF !!!
ご回答いただきありがとうございます。
mw:User talk:Pginer-WMFに書いたような事情であなたのお返事に気づくのが遅くなりました。
あなた方が公開（投稿）の制限について検討しておられるとのことで喜んでいます。
ただ、少し気になるのは「we」というのが、どのような範囲であるかです。というのは、技術者は自分の「便利」「必要」という思い込みで、利用者が「不便」「不必要」と思う機能を組み込んでしまうことがよくあるからです。
一つだけ要望しておくと、個人の利用者ページに公開する時だけではなくDRAFT空間に公開する時にも制限を緩和していただきたいと思います。
Thank you !!!
先ほどの投稿でなぜか英語に変換されているので再度投稿します。
HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 16:14, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
Sorry. It comes from my browser setting. HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 16:16, 25 March 2020 (UTC)