Project talk:Namespaces

Naming/another namespace?

Hi Bdk - I just saw this page. I'm not sure that 'manual' is the best name for the technical namespace. Is this purely for technical documentation, or is it for full GFDL MediaWiki docs? I think the name could be confusing as the pages destined for the Help namespace are currently described as the 'User Manual' and the technical reference is also called 'technical manual' on it's main index page. I think we need some clarification of terminology before the new namespace is created.

I'm not sure what your plans are for the documentation, but as far as I can see there are three levels of MediaWiki help that we should ultimately cater for.

1. MediaWiki users (browsing/editing help, for which we should be developing a set of PD help pages within the Help: namespace)
2. MediaWiki system administrators (help for people setting up and maintaining a wiki - installation/upgrade guides, customisation, etc.)
3. MediaWiki developers (people working on the main MW codebase, people hacking the code for their own purposes and extension writers)

I am not sure whether or not the second two should be combined in the same namespace, but they should definitely be kept separate from #1. I think this content needs to be kept separate so that administrators don't get caught up in developer info that might confuse them. However, it might be possible to accomplish this with proper attention to the manual's structure and doesn't necessarily require two namespaces to achieve. Thoughts? --HappyDog 23:36, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Hiho,

1. goes to ns:help
2. to ns:manual
3. to (main)

The alternative is to set up another namespace "whatever", that should be no problem. Proposal for a name? --:Bdk: 23:49, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Where do you see the current technical pages being located (e.g. Help:Configuration settings)? Under your proposed method these would be in the main namespace. If this is what you intend then that's fine.

Given what you've said above, Manual: might actually be a suitable name after all, although we need to be quite careful about our use of terminology, including clarifying the content of the separate sections, as we don't want to end up with three different 'manuals'. If user's aren't sure whether they should be looking in Help:Installation or Manual:Installation or simply Installation, then something is wrong!

Finally, will the manual pages also cover topics dealt with in the Help namespace (i.e. making it a full manual for the software) or is it something that will need to be read in conjunction with the user help pages?

--HappyDog 23:57, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Help:Configuration settings should be moved to ns:Manual imo.

The manual pages presumably will become the ones with the most content (the alternative name proposal was "handbook", but most people I've talked to preferred "manual"; I've asked several native English speakers on IRC). Nearly all pages from the meta:handbook should be transferred to this namespace.

ns:help is of very narrowed usage and clearly defined. Only content that really is to be shipped with the software as an editing/formatting help (mainly what is Wikipedia's help) for users should go in there, nothing else. General "help for this wiki" goes to ns:project therefore.

Hope, the idea get's clearer. --:Bdk: 00:16, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps there is some confusion in what I meant in point #3. By 'information for developers' I meant reference information, details about the software internals and other developer-centric info (including config settings, hooks, schema, etc.). I think this should be kept distinct for info for admins ('how to install', 'available extensions', etc.). There is also a further set of information, which is also aimed at Developers, and which is part of the development process, e.g. road maps, current issues, release information, etc., which is what I think you thought I meant by point #3.

The four sets of information we need are therefore:

1. An integrated help system for wiki users
2. An on-line (or file-based) source of information about setting up and maintaining the software for administrators.
3. A reference manual for developers
4. Up-to-date software development information for all concerned (but primarily developers).

Is this right, or am I getting confused? --HappyDog 00:58, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[EDIT] Actually, I've just realised I was getting confused. I've just realised that the config settings are (of course) primarily required by administrators setting up a wiki. I was thinking of them as developer info. D'oh! Perhaps a better question would be to say where would the info about 'hooks' go? Where would DB schema be located? --HappyDog 01:00, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

hehe, learned another funny expression now: D'oh!. Thanks Wikipedia ;-) 

Hm, hooks and db scheme stuff should be located in NS:Manual as far as the pages deal with stuff that is already present and part of the distribution, IMO. Hm, but we'll better ask some devs what they think about this suggestion before sorting bigger parts. Ok? --:Bdk: 00:44, 21 April 2006 (UTC) 

PD Issues

Another point - we need to check all existing help pages for any edits that were made _before_ the PD notice was put on the page. Technically these are GFDL as that was the license that was in place when the contribution was made (although any edits made by the person who placed the PD notice, and possibly those who have edited the page since the notice was in place, may be considered PD even if they were made before the notice was added).

Also, in order to properly ensure that our PD claim is enforcable, the text under the edit box should really be different within the Help: namespace, as having two conflicting licensing notices on the same page may lead to confusion. We can probably just reword the edit text to give details though, so maybe this isn't a big problem, but is worth thinking about. --HappyDog 23:50, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Right, I also did think about these problems, but they should not be too large. So if you got a quick solution, just change the messages, please (be bold *g*) However, a problem with an adapted copyrightwarning may be the different language versions, pd note is not only valid for english users, hum. And of course, there are a lot of other messages that need closer adaption to this wiki :-/

Another point will be to move all these Help:$wgfoo pages to ns:manual ... I know, I hear your sigh, sorry. But better now than later. --:Bdk: 00:08, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Maybe see if there's a bot that can do it for us? I know there are several about for this kind of bulk page move, but I have no experience of running them myself. It will be very time-consuming (though possible) to do this by hand (300+ articles so far!) --HappyDog 00:49, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Mainspace redirects

This wiki is kind of unusual in that most of its important content is not in mainspace. Is there a problem with filling most of mainspace with redirects and disambiguation pages that help people find their way to the pages they're looking for in Manual:, API:, Extension:, Help:, etc.? Leucosticte (talk) 16:51, 7 October 2014 (UTC)