Language Testing Plan/Triage20130828/IRC chat log

Time: 1700-1800 UTC
Channel: #mediawiki-i18n
Timestamps are in IST.

[22:31]  <arrbee> == Language Engineering bug triage for August 2013 - start ==
[22:31]  <Revi> was MF-W all problem?
[22:31]  <arrbee> Hello. Its Language Engineering bug triage day. 
[22:31]  <arrbee> Today we are going to triage some of the RTL language bugs.
[22:32]  <arrbee> Please do let us know if you are a speaker or are familiar with any of the RTL languages
[22:33]  <arrbee> The list of bugs that we are going choose from is on this etherpad:
[22:33]  <Revi> RTL..... like arabic?
[22:33]  <arrbee> yep.. Right-to-Left languages
[22:33]  <WolfLambert> Keegan: I really like echo :) How goes its development?
[22:33]  <arrbee> sorry.. should have avoided the abbreviation early on :)
[22:34]  <arrbee> etherpad link: https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/BugTriage-i18n-2013-08
[22:34]  <Keegan> WolfLambert: It's developed for the most part.  You'll get it on Dutch Wikipedia in a few weeks
[22:34]  <arrbee> If you are on the etherpad please also add your name using the button with an user icon at the top right corner 
[22:34]  <Keegan> Romaine is in charge of that there
[22:34]  <WolfLambert> Yeah, nice! :D
[22:34]  <Nikerabbit> hello
[22:35]  <arrbee> The Wikimedia Language Engineering team also around: Nikerabbit kart_ santhosh_ 
[22:35]  <WolfLambert> Ho hey! Translatewiki is back!
[22:36]  <Revi> and I hope  echo in kowiki too
[22:36]  <kart_> hello all!
[22:36]  <Nikerabbit> WolfLambert: read-only :(
[22:36]  <arrbee> First bug of the evening:
[22:36]  <arrbee> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21429 - Arabic double diacritics presentation
[22:36]  <Keegan> Revi: Yes, it is scheduled for 26 sept.  One month to get the translations done and we are good to go :)
[22:36]  <WolfLambert> Oh. Goodbye my happiness :'(
[22:37]  <Revi> Keegan: Mediawiki help translations?
[22:37]  * arrbee looks around if Arif is present today
[22:37]  * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
[22:37]  <Keegan> Let's take it to pm so arrbee can coordinate this bug work
[22:37]  <arrbee> Thanks Keegan 
[22:38]  <arrbee> Arif is possibly not around.
[22:39]  <arrbee> Looks like bug 21429 has a reference to another earlier bug 2399: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2399
[22:39]  <arrbee> Nikerabbit: any opinions?
[22:39]  <arrbee> umm.. btw do we have any speakers of Arabic around?
[22:40]  <WolfLambert> Indeed. I get "not saved" when trying to translate
[22:40]  * WolfLambert is from Belgium
[22:40]  <Nikerabbit> I don't know specifics, but it likely related to unicode normalizations
[22:40]  <WolfLambert> So I don't know who is speaking Arabic
[22:40]  <WolfLambert> The wiki is currently in read-only mode...
[22:41]  <WolfLambert> Hi mooeypoo
[22:42]  <arrbee> Given comment5 I am not sure if we can make an intelligent decision about this bug rightaway
[22:43]  <Nikerabbit> Raymond_: please see email
[22:43]  <Nikerabbit> arrbee: not without spending a lot of time to study it...
[22:43]   Nikerabbit Nischayn22|Away
[22:43]  <arrbee> Nikerabbit: ok..
[22:43]  <arrbee> Well moving on then
[22:44]  <Raymond_> Nikerabbit: sh....
[22:44]  <arrbee> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34123 - create an Arabic layout based on the Arabic chat alphabet
[22:44]  <arrbee> bug filed by Amir
[22:45]  <Nikerabbit> I don't quite understand
[22:46]  <Nikerabbit> It is a character encoding of Arabic to the Latin script and the Arabic numerals.
[22:46]  <arrbee> Possibly a transliterated set of characters
[22:46]  <Nikerabbit> if we are assuming qwerty-keyboard, they don't need input method for that
[22:46]  <Nikerabbit> perhaps he is asking to have that as input and to produce arabic script instead
[22:46]  <arrbee> yes
[22:47]  <arrbee> having the mapping set.. like a multi-key transliteration keyboard
[22:47]  <Nikerabbit> and if so, there is no proof that it works in that direction...
[22:47]  <WolfLambert> Okay I'll go
[22:47]  <WolfLambert> Bye everyone!
[22:47]  <arrbee> mooeypoo: would you know anything about this?
[22:47]  <Nikerabbit> bye
[22:47]  <arrbee> bye WolfLambert 
[22:47]  <Revi> bye
[22:47]  <Revi> latr
[22:47]  <Revi> *late
[22:48]  <arrbee> Nikerabbit: technically will this be too difficult to implement?
[22:49]  <Nikerabbit> arrbee: if it is letter-to-letter mapping, easy, if it needs dictionaries and heuristics.... very difficult
[22:50]  <arrbee> Nikerabbit: the examples indicate the former
[22:50]  <Nikerabbit> if you are refering to the wikipage, I think they indicate the latter ;)
[22:50]   Nikerabbit Nischayn22|Away
[22:51]  <arrbee> Nikerabbit: well it looks similar to a layout called the itrans for Indic scripts
[22:51]  <arrbee> which is not very hard to implement
[22:51]  <Nikerabbit> I do not feel it is something that our team would do... I'd expect there would be more standardized input methods
[22:52]  <arrbee> Nikerabbit: alright.. perhaps this is more on the fun side of things. Lets keep it as a Low Enhancement
[22:53]  <arrbee> Next bug:
[22:53]  <arrbee> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=38674 - Names.php includes RTL control characters
[22:53]  <Nikerabbit> well
[22:53]  <arrbee> Another bug from Amir
[22:54]  <Nikerabbit> it doesn't have clear steps how to bring it forward
[22:55]  <arrbee> Nope and the description suggests it is not something that has a clear solution at all at this point of time.
[22:55]  <arrbee> Lets leave it unchanged.
[22:55]  <Nikerabbit> hmm
[22:55]  <Nikerabbit> it's not WONTFIX but it not actionable either
[22:55]  <Nikerabbit> should we leave a comment stating that?
[22:56]  <arrbee> Nikerabbit: We  could.
[22:57]  <arrbee> Next bug: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41551 - Add 6 fonts for Arabic WebFonts
[22:58]  <arrbee> santhosh_: kart_ : opinions?
[23:00]  <santhosh_> not much to add. if we need comments from community, we need to ask, otherwise just add. We may need to shortlist this fonts as per community feedback
[23:01]  <kart_> Amiri is already there.
[23:01]  <kart_> I'll check for rest of fonts.
[23:01]  <arrbee> santhosh_: ok.. perhaps a follow up on the appropriate village pump or mailing list
[23:02]  <arrbee> kart_: Thanks. 
[23:03]  <arrbee> kart_: am moving to the next bug. Lets take it forward after talking with some Arabic users
[23:04]  <arrbee> Next bug: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41940 - Amiri font for Arab lacks italics and bold causing bad rendering
[23:04]  <arrbee> file by Nemo_bis 
[23:07]  <arrbee> and screenshots from Khaled.
[23:07]  <arrbee> kart_: possible way forward?
[23:08]  * ChanServ gives voice to brion
[23:09]  <kart_> arrbee: looking..
[23:10]  <arrbee> 25 more mins to go.
[23:11]  <arrbee> We have a big list of bugs from user reza1615.. but I am not sure if he/she is here today
[23:12]  <wizardist> i'll give you a screenshout in a few minutes
[23:13]  <wizardist> sorry, it's not much time to file a bug
[23:13]  <wizardist> :(
[23:13]  <arrbee> wizardist: about this bug? 
[23:13]  <wizardist> nope, the other thing
[23:14]  <arrbee> welcome aharoni 
[23:15]  <arrbee> kart_: should i move to the next bug?
[23:15]  <kart_> arrbee: may be upstream bug. I'll try to use new upstream version available.
[23:15]  <kart_> 1.0.6
[23:15]  <aharoni> yo
[23:15]  <arrbee> kart_: alright
[23:15]  <kart_> There is version mismatch in font.ini too.
[23:15]  <kart_> That also need to fix
[23:17]  <arrbee> Amir, can you enlighten us a bit about bug 38674
[23:17]  <wizardist> bad: http://cropme.ru/s/d/8/s/7ef30c63.png
[23:17]  <wizardist> good: http://cropme.ru/s/d/8/s/5a18049d.png
[23:17]  <aharoni> bug 38674 depends on https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41103
[23:18]  <aharoni> as it says
[23:18]  <aharoni> It's not really a user-visible problem, just ugly code.
[23:18]  <aharoni> and bug 41103 is not an RTL bug, but a general bug, but it's also mostly about internal refactoring
[23:18]  <aharoni> hi wizardist 
[23:18]  <wizardist> yay
[23:18]  <arrbee> aharoni: ok
[23:19]  <aharoni> but yes, as wizardist says, it has various influences and prevents useful stuff from getting done
[23:19]  <aharoni> wizardist: is that VE issue reported in Bugzilla?
[23:19]  <wizardist> [20:43:10] <wizardist> sorry, it's not much time to file a bug
[23:19]  <wizardist> I reported it to you few days ago :P
[23:20]  <arrbee> wizardist: aha… 
[23:21]  <arrbee> wizardist: will you be filing a bug for this sometime?
[23:21]  <arrbee> surely looks like a nasty problem
[23:21]  <aharoni> arrbee, wizardist - I am already filing it right now
[23:21]  <arrbee> aharoni: Thanks
[23:22]  <wizardist> if VE can reach ULS data, then I can submit a patch maybe a bit later this evening
[23:22]  <aharoni> wizardist: yes, it can, thanks to mooeypoo's work
[23:22]  <wizardist> after 11pm UTC
[23:22]  <arrbee> wizardist: nice!
[23:22]  <arrbee> meanwhile.. lets quickly go over the other two bugs
[23:22]  <aharoni> ULS is essentially bundled with VE now
[23:22]  <arrbee> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43951 - ULS search autocomplete doesn't handle RTL well: doesn't adapt direction, autocomplete text overlaps regular text
[23:22]  <aharoni> ok, let's move on
[23:23]  <aharoni> eww, that one's icky, and requires HTML magic, which I'm not sure is even possible
[23:23]  <aharoni> placeholders in <input>s never play well with RTL
[23:24]  <arrbee> hmm… 
[23:25]  <arrbee> aharoni: so what is a possible way forward? could we say something on that bug ?
[23:26]  <aharoni> I wish I could add something. I'll have to research the topic, to see whether anybody ever came up with a solution for RTL placeholders.
[23:26]  <arrbee> okay
[23:26]  <aharoni> oh!
[23:26]  <aharoni> another option is to add automatic direction detection
[23:26]  <aharoni> not perfect, but good for this case
[23:26]  <arrbee> aharoni: could this be assigned to someone?
[23:27]  <wizardist> I cannot reproduce this in the interwiki section language selector
[23:27]  <Nemo_bis> Nikerabbit: solr down, can you restart it please?
[23:28]  <arrbee> wizardist: interesting!
[23:28]  <aharoni> i think that i can reproduce, let me try quickly...
[23:28]  <wizardist> arrbee: wait, need to check the user bar selector
[23:28]  <Nikerabbit> Nemo_bis: no
[23:28]  <arrbee> wizardist: oh ok
[23:28]  <wizardist> nah, works as intended
[23:28]  <wizardist> Chrome 29/Windows
[23:29]  <arrbee> wizardist: we should probably mention this on the bug as well
[23:29]  <Nemo_bis> Nikerabbit: for the corrupted DB?
[23:29]  <wizardist> I will after I do some more tests
[23:29]  <aharoni> oh, maybe we just disabled it completely in RTL?..
[23:29]  <arrbee> wizardist: great! Thanks a lot.
[23:29]  <aharoni> wizardist: want to take it? :)
[23:29]  <arrbee> We are nearly running out of time… lets squeeze in the last bug for today (and on the list)
[23:29]  <wizardist> aharoni: I would if I could reproduce it first :D
[23:30]  <arrbee> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44407 - Add Ezra SIL font for Hebrew script to WebFonts
[23:30]  <aharoni> that's hardly RTL. it's just font adding, and it's a reasonable request.
[23:30]  <aharoni> assign to me.
[23:30]  <arrbee> aharoni: ah ok.
[23:31]  <arrbee> aharoni: done
[23:31]  <arrbee> yay… all done
[23:32]  <kart_> \0/
[23:32]  <arrbee> We probably need to get in touch with Reza to check on the other list 
[23:33]  <arrbee> Alright.. anything more to take a look at tonight?
[23:33]   Nikerabbit Nischayn22|Away
[23:33]  <arrbee> aharoni: kart_ Nikerabbit wizardist ?
[23:34]  <abian> Hello :)
[23:34]  <Nikerabbit> plop
[23:34]  <abian> How can I fix the translation system on [[m:Wikimedia España]]?
[23:35]  <abian> To implement <languages />, I say
[23:35]  <Nemo_bis> abian: what do you mean
[23:35]  <arrbee> alright… lets stop here then. 
[23:36]  <abian> Sorry, phone :)
[23:36]  <arrbee> Thanks everyone. Lets have another triage session soon and do let us know how we can make this better.
[23:36]  <arrbee> == Language Engineering bug triage for August 2013 - end ==